I’ve been learning Mary Bergins version of The Langstern Pony.
Langsterns pony is the second tune.
If it were played on a D whistle, how is she rolling the A on the third measure? It seems longer than a normal long roll, Is it a long roll and short roll joined together? Or a long roll with an extra cut somewhere? ( Double cut roll? )
The part of the tune can be found starting at 2:05 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_ySVrhBQeQ
I would be grateful if anyone can explain what she is doing here, the nearest i get to it is playing a long roll followed by a short roll in succession, and it is difficult to keep the cuts and strikes in good timing. I’m sorry but I can’t read music so sheet music doesn’t help me much. Normally I pick things up by ear, but this one has baffled me.
Yes, you could think of it as a long roll (3 beats) + short roll (2 beats):
A{c}A{G}A {c}A{G}A
But really, it’s an extended roll. Once you start the cut-tap pattern, there’s no reason* you can’t keep it going forever for 5 beats, 7 beats, 9 beats …
Do you mean the A that is the first note in the last part of the tune? If so, I have an idea. Or, at least, I play it the way I imagine she recorded it. The technique is tricky to describe - I wish I could show you. Basically (assuming your left hand is at the top), you take the middle finger of your right hand and leave a gap between it and the index finger of the same hand. Then, you quickly run your middle finger, gap, and index finger over the G hole. So it plays A, G, A, G, A really quickly. You can use the same technique on B and G, and a variation of it to grace note C#. Don’t ask me whether it’s a cut, roll, or triplet though. I only plays 'em, I don’t name 'em.
Weeell, yes one could do that… but I’m quite sure that that is not what Mary does on the note in question in that recording, and I’d be extremely surprised if she ever did it.
Why do you say that, Stevie? It’s a very good alternative to the ‘traditional’ method of playing that grace note. It’s a bit flashy looking for sure, but it works and gets the same sound. Let’s face it, if I’m technically proficient enough to play it, there’s no doubt Mary is too -
That I’m sure that’s not what she is doing? because of the sound she is making.
That I’d be surprised if she did it? because I have watched her playing (I mean, in her presence) for a good number of hours over the years and, well, she just doesn’t do stuff like that. I’ve never seen any trad. player do stuff like that, in fact, I’ve only seen such techniques in print, on web pages.
But as mentioned above, and it’s clearly audible … Mary is playing that note with a combination of cuts and taps = extended roll. Not a series of only staccato taps - which is what your technique produces.
Nothing inherently wrong with it; it’s just not a normal “word” in the trad vocabulary, or Mary’s vocabulary - at least going by her recordings.
Steve, I think Brian Finnegan did demo machine gun taps on G in our last workshop get-together, in the flesh. But that’s Brian, and he made it perfectly clear that he was speaking Finnegan-ese.
Ah, yes, Brian. Well he’s in a category of his own and despite my unreserved admiration for his skill and musicality, I rather dread hearing emulators!
I´m certainly happy to be proved wrong. If I am wrong, then I´d tend to agree that MTGuru is right. However, there´s more than one way to skin a cat. When I play that tune, I use both techniques depending on my mood… Funnily enough, I learned the technique from a friend of mine who was a contemporary of Brian Finnegans at the Armagh Pipers Club.
When it comes to gracing Csharp, the method I described is pretty much the best way.
Mary, of course, is the Queen of Whistling without a doubt. I´ve never met her, but if anyone who has been on this thread does meet her then ask her so we can have closure. The Langstern Pony is one of the stand out tunes on that album.
m.d.
There’s a GHB piping ornament that’s a bit similar, isn’t there? The name completely escapes me at the moment. It involves “wiping” the finger up and down over one of the bottom holes.
Yep, I’m no sort of piper but a birl involves a sort of double wipe on the bottom hole. It’s kinda like a cran on the uilleann pipes in that it’s a decoration for the bottom note on the chanter. It’s total black art territory in that it’s easy when you know how, but there’s bound to be loads of people on the piping forum who could describe it properly.
m.d.
A word that made it’s way over to Ireland, as in “The Reel with the Beryle” (obviously a phonetic rendition). I don’t know if that title is a reference to the piping ornament, but in Donegal at least the term was used to mean “woomph”, “vim”, welly" etc. in someone’s playing. Packie Manus Byrne told me that his granduncle “Big Pat” used the expression, IIRC, and I’m sure I’ve seen a reference to the word in connection with the playing of the late Francie and Mickie Byrne.
I’m happy to know the source of your device, emdee. There are doubtless many more ways to squeeze more pops and burbles into one’s whistling, including the “wipes” you describe, and of course double-cut rolls (AFAIK another import from GHB playing). We all have to decide where to draw the line.
As regards Mary B, I hope you do find closure. If I’m wrong I’ll stand you a pint
‘Wipe’ is a great term for that technique. I think we should coin it, and possibly trademark it as well -
You know, this is the darndest thing. I’ve been playing whistle for nearly 20 years - I’ve even done it professionally for a time and I’ve taught workshops all over the place -and I do not know the difference between a cut, roll, a triplet, a tap by name… I can play different kinds of grace notes, but if you were to say to me ‘play a double roll on that G’ I would have no idea what you meant. I ‘play by ear’ in the most restrictive sense of the word. I’m a cypher and I try to create a grace note by any means necessary. On that basis, maybe it’s inappropriate for me to comment on a thread about grace note technique. On the other hand, it makes me very intuitive. Kind of like Jedi whistling. Mary Bergin is Yoda - I’ve spent years listening to her albums - and the thing that makes her the best is that, as soon as I’ve nailed a certain decoration or phrase, I notice something new in her playing.
m.d.
Makes perfect sense to me, md. The terms are more for talking about the music than for playing it.
A while ago I sat down with local fluter Ben Power to pick his amazing brain about this and that. Including “extended” ornaments - bounces, flips, double cuts, condensed rolls, etc. You hear these things all the time from great players, but there are really no standard terms for most of this. So the conversation is something like: “What do you think about [diddle-diddle]?” “Sure, or you can play [diddle-diddle], maybe followed by [diddle-diddle]” …
I reckon many a conversation over the years has involved musicians, instruments in hand, trading unnamed diddle-diddles.
