Low D with more backpressure?

Whistle
1

…sandal enters the room very carefully, knowing that this is his first post. He has an unpleasant feeling that everybody knows eachother, and that they are staring at him as he takes his first steps into something still unknown…

A little about myself:
I am 27 and a teacher (school, 5. grade and piano lessons). Piano is my “main instrument”, but I have played clarinet for two years and trombone for three years.

I bought my first whistles (Generation high D and high F) a year and a half ago. Early this summer my Low D and High D arrived from Tony Dixon.

I like the sound of the Dixons. They are fairly easy to play, but there is one problem. Being used to trombone and clarinet, I feel that the whistle has almost no resistance. Staying in the right octave is no problem, but I feel that I can’t put much “feeling” into the music this way.

What I am looking for is a Low D whistle that takes a little more “muscle” to play than the Dixon. I have searched and read, and Overtons seem to have high backpressure. I have listened to a few CD recordings with Overton whistles, and they sound great (but what doesn’t on CD). A week ago I sent Colin Goldie an e-mail, but I haven’t heard from him yet. He is probably busy making whistles :smiley:

Do you think I would be happy with an Overton? Are there other whistles to consider, with high backpressure particularly in mind?

How long is the waiting list for an Overton at the moment?

All info/comments/recommendations/advice appreciated
Thank you

sandal

PS (edit): I don’t want to sound like I don’t like the Dixon. I am still a beginner, but I am trying to find the instrument that will suit my “playing style” (if I have developed one yet).

2

You cannot do any better than a Colin Goldie Overton. They will get back to you, sometimes it takes them a while. Also, don’t hesitate to call them, phone no is on www.overton.de . I recommend calling and talking to Colin, he’ll make the whistle according to your wishes.

There is a bit of a wait, but it varies.

Also, keep you eyes open on C&F, Overton low Ds show up for sale from time to time, there were a few in the last months.

Good luck,
Bloomfield (former trombone player, hehe)

3

Hi Sandal,you can also get Goldie low D Overtons from here www.bigwhistle.co.uk

4

I like Overtons too and own more than a couple of them. :smiley:

One other whistle that may have a bit of backpressure is the Chieftain line sold by Phil Hardy. I have not played one of them, but they are a similar design to the Overton.

As Bloomfield said though, Colin will listen to what you desire and you WILL get that or he will make it right.

5

I have an Overton low D made by Colin Goldie, a couple of Chieftains and recently acquired a new KerryPro low D (according to Phil Hardy, once intended for Mike McGoldrick). I find that the Overton definitely lives up to its reputation of having substantial back pressure that “you can stand on top of,” as it’s sometimes described. Overtons are phenomenal instruments, and Colin will really work with you to find the kind of whistle you want (for example: when I ordered my first Overton, Colin asked me what kind of qualities I was looking for, and played ten or so whistles over the phone for me, so I could choose the one that I liked the most). As far as Phil Hardy’s whistles go, the KerryPro is most similar to the Overton in terms of backpressure: it’s strong, it’s solid, and certainly has the “cosmic drainpipe” feel to it that’s typically associated with Overtons. However, similarities between the two whistles end there (other than the fact that both take time to warm up). They’re completely different whistles, each with their own character and idiosyncrasies. So, if you’re looking for backpressure, I’d suggest either an Overton or the KerryPro. (Or when you sufficiently succumb to your own WHOA proclivities, one of each…) You’ll also find that since these are handmade instruments, any particular whistle will vary (however subtly) from another, even by the same maker–hence the individuality of handcrafted instruments.

6

You can ask most any custom whistle maker about increasing backpressure and they can do it. I know that Stacy at Alba Whistles has done some work to make good backpressure on whistles.

7

That is right, I had fogotten that about Stacey’s Whistles.

Rumor Central: I had heard that the Kerry/Chieftain whistles were not hand made and that they are CNC’d to a great degree.

I know for a fact that a bunch of sweat goes into Overtons.

Not that being hand made makes or breaks a whistles qualtity, by any means.

8

Thank you for the info!

Addiction is closer than ever. I just ordered an Alba Tenor F (tuneable). Although they seem to have little backpressure, they do seem to have a very good reputation. I’m hiding behind the excuse that I’d like an F in order to be able to play together with my friends’ Bb/Eb-instruments (sax, trombone, clarinet). The real reason is probably closer to “I just want one”.

I will probably order the Low D from Colin Goldie as well. (Probably = 98.6%)

The best thing would be to be happy with my Dixon and learn to play properly before spending too much money on new instruments. I am well aware of the fact that a good whistle doesn’t make me much better. And the Dixon sounds better every day. I am NOT going to sell it.

This is an example of stupidity (too many toys) leading to happiness.

9

Hey, you better be careful who you say that to around here!!!


:laughing:

10

You’re right. I don’t want to offend anybody. :party: Stupidity isn’t the right word. Suggestions?

What I am trying to say (but still can’t) is something like: When it comes to music, we’re free to do things the way we want to because we want to. No need for any “sensible” reasons. In a “perfect world” I would probably pay off some of my loan instead of buying whistles.

Did I make it even worse now? :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Rumor Central: I had heard that the Kerry/Chieftain whistles were not hand made and that they are CNC’d to a great degree.

Chieftains are not hand made, but KerryPro are. (info from www.bigwhistle.co.uk and www.kerrywhistles.com)

T

12

Dear Sandal

If you feel a call to adventure, you could modify your existing whistle(s) for greater back-pressure. There are several ways that have been suggested here before.

Examples:

Insert 2 balsa wood or paper “matchsticks” into the windway at the sides to narrow the airway at the exit.

“Paint” some clear nail polish on the upper “lip” of the windway exit to decrease the opening. Be careful to make this even across the lip. This method should be used on metal whistles and is less reversable on plastic.

The “Joannie Madden Technique”. Hold the whistle pointing downwards and against the chin and blow across the opening of the windway. Tip the angle of the whistle until you get the tone you prefer.

Place a “coin” shaped plug at the bottom of the whistle bore and open a hole in it until you have a “ring” on the inner diameter. This will give a standing wave back-pressure effect and the whistle will require less air to resonate. In effect, reducing the lowest (technically) open tonehole, the bore end. This “coin/plug” can be made from Balsa or Bass wood found in most hobbie/craft stores.

You can also try the Japanese “Nohkan” (throat flute) effect by rolling a paper tube of 1 to 2 millimeters thickness that will fit inside the bore between the top tonehole and the voicing window. Once you get a tight fit, this can be waxed with a fine paint brush and melted candle/bees wax. This gives greater acoustic coupling to the voicing and reduces wind requirements. For those with a physics background… It reduces the “m”(air mass) that needs to be moved for resonation in the Kinetic Energy Formula “E = mv2/2”, (less mass = less E {wind} needed to sound/resonate)

There are more ways to skin this cat and I hope others will speak up. These tweaks are less effective than a professional windway and/or bore reduction but may help and the ones I stated are reversable.

Thomas Hastay.

13

Thomas-Hastay; thank you for all the suggestions! :thumbsup:

I have tried something similar. I put a piece of tape on each side of the mouthpiece to narrow the windway to half width. This provided the backpressure I wanted (good), but it also made the whistle a lot quieter (not good). Although it didn’t “solve my problem”, it is fun to experiment a little. I’m going to try “matchsticks” today and see how that works. I guess the sound will be different because the air will be moving faster through the mouthpiece.

14

We have been here before but what the heck.
Smaller windway = smaller window=more backpressure=quieter sound
The more yer put in the more yer get out.
While everyone dreams of the perfect whistle its never going to happen.
Stop dreaming get out yer credit card get your self an Colin Goldy
and you will get backpressure but you will have to warm it up each time you play as cloging and low windway roof hight is what makes that rabbit come outa the hat.

15

I thought I may add something which hopefully helps with this subject.

Not as simple as that. Everything has to be taken into consideration. The height of the windway, length of the vent, angle of the bevel, diameter of bore and size of finger holes. A whistle with backpressure can be VERY loud or reasonably quiet. I know this from making the different kinds.


get your self an Colin Goldy and you will get backpressure but you will have to warm it up each time you play as cloging and low windway roof hight is what makes that rabbit come outa the hat.

Just to complicate things a little, everyone seems to have their own idea on what is high backpressure and low backpressure anyway. I can make whistles with zero backpressure to high backpressure. As they are individually handmade I can choose what I want to do with them. I personally prefer a whistle that has some resistence as I can get a lot more tone from each individual note and find a larger range of expression.

I think some people first can have problems with a “backpressure” instrument be it whistle, sax, clarinet or… They do not know how to support their breath well enough to play how it needs to be played. I have seen people try and hold back from blowing and consequently not only will the notes not be stable but it can then also clog (when on whistle). This happened to me years ago when I was always thinking if the neighbours could hear me and was I too loud. I am lucky now as the only complaints I have had is that the neighbours do not hear me enough especially now that the workshop is better insulated. This I find is worth its weight in gold (real gold, not what vaguely resembles it)

With the right breath and a properly warmed up whistle, there should be no problem with clogging. The breath may need some practice as playing well does, too. Whistles with resistence or backpressure require more focussing when playing but as Stacey said, the more you put in the more you can get out. Try playing a kick ass tune with alot of attack and emotion on a whistle with zero backpressure, it does not quite have the same effect as one with, but again it is what you are lookinig for. Everyone has their own preferences. I personally have a couple or more whistles of the keys I mainly use depending on the tunes that I play. O.k. I am in the fortunate situation where I can make what I need and like.

If my whistles get sold to a shop, I try and make a mixture, the idea being that someone will go in the shop, check them out and buy what they prefer. If ordered from a shop without trying then it can be one or the other which arrives. If ordered through myself, there is the choice of what they are looking for.

BTW, Staissie, my surname is Goldie, a good old Scottish name :smiley:

Hope this helps a little.

Colin

16

Few have ever entered into the Goldie Overton world with more fear and trepidation than I. I play whistles by 3 makers whose playability characteristics are diametrically opposed to the ‘classic’ Overton. I wished to own one more low D. I had played an Overton high D, years ago, and did not like it. I had heard many Overton low D’s. That ‘sound’ was very enticing…However, my prejudices were set and I ignored the ‘call’ for a very long time. A number of issues fell into place, including Bloomfield’s gentle comments to me. I contacted Brigitte and Colin. After many conversations (which have continued, post sale…), I ordered a low D that would be built to my precise specifications - including in the area of back pressure. Colin delivered the whistle, months ahead of schedule, and has given me a superb instrument that could not be closer to my desires. It is simply a marvel…

In the area of Overton back pressure from Colin, 'ye can have what 'ye wish. Drawbacks? For me, absolutely none, except for the abysmal monetary exchange rate between Germany and the United States. Such is the world in which we live…

Best to all.
Byll

17

:laughing:


Colin, get back to work. :smiley:

18

I came to whistle from saxophone so I was used to backpressure and the standard Overtons were (and remain) fine for me. Every new whistle takes a little while to get used to, even if it’s only 20 minutes, so getting a good clean balanced sound at the top of the second octave wasn’t a problem, although I might have to practice a bit to get it. I was actually a bit surprised when I heard that people found them hard to play.

Now I often like to play whistles with less backpressure although I can find it frustrating having to breathe more frequently. It just depends on the mood I’m in and the sound I’m after. Fortunately I’m lucky to have a choice of several in most fairly common keys but, whatever else I own, I always have an Overton, or would like one in the few keys I have yet to fill.

19

What, are you waiting for something Amar? :stuck_out_tongue:

" I will not buy this record(er), it is scratched."

I have just the recorder for you Amar, for $3000 I promise you it won’t have a single scratch. :smiley:

Loren

20

It does. I am confident that I will get a very good instrument. My order (Low D tuneable) is in your mailbox (goldie@rp-plus.de).

:smiley: :thumbsup: :smiley: :thumbsup: :smiley: :thumbsup: :smiley: :thumbsup: :smiley: :thumbsup: :smiley: