First of all, Hi. Been lurking around in the shadows for a while but probably time to introduce myself and ask for some input!
Im scottish, was a reasonable flautist during my late teens/early twenties and, used to play the whistle then too although it wasnt my major. Other than the odd tootle over the years, Ive not really kept my hand in until recently. Ive been playing more in the last 6 months or so and the whistle is probably more accessible for me now in terms of being able to find others to play with. Ive always played Feadogs but am about to order a Jerry Freeman tweaked blackbird
Im not up on all the technical terms so you’ll have to bare with me in this next bit…
The two main attributes that Im looking for in a low D are;
~ low breath requirement to play
~ clear tone rather than the airy flute like sound
I have small hands but long slim fingers so Im hoping reach shouldnt pose too much of a problem in combination with using pipers grip but I guess a tapered bore wouldnt hurt. I dont know whether offset holes or two piece whistles would be a good idea for me or not. And lastly, my budget is low - ideally £130 max.
I was recommended a Dixon TB003 but dont know if it ticks the breath and tone boxes for me. Id also been looking at Shearwater Whistles, MK and the Kerry Optima.
I know all of this is just down to personal taste but any advice is greatly welcomed.
Welcome to the forum.
I would suggest contacting a whistlemaker as close to home as possible, perhaps hans, who contributes on C&F frequently so you could possibly try a whistle out. http://www.music.bracker.co/
Nice choice in whistle but the Blackbird is not a low D whistle, and I’m not sure if you understood that considering your title to post.
Whereabouts in Scotland are you? I only ask because you might have different whistle makers on your doorstep depending on where you are. I have Hans Bracker and Alba Whistles within striking distance and it doesn’t hurt to be able to visit a visit a maker and try out their whistles.
My main concern when reading your list of requirements was that you wanted a pure tone. That excludes a lot of whistles. The Optima is a lovely beginners whistle with low air requirements but it has something of the breathy Overton/Goldie tone. I haven’t looked at Shearwater whistles for a while but MKs don’t have a pure tone either. I would have described Dixons as having a purish tone but you say you don’t like it. You could do worse than contact Daniel at http://www.domnahlnagruen.com/, another Scottish maker and give him your list of requirements since he makes whistles to fit your requirements.
Isla75,
Glad you decided to join us here at C & F. I agree with both Ytliek and Mikethebook in that you have several choices in excellent and very knowledgable makers right there in Scotland, though not all may fit each of your requirements. Hans Bracker comess immediately to mind as someone that might work with you in offering you options to bring you close to what you are looking for. If you just want a low D to play alone and you don’t need a tunable model, that could help keep you closer to budget, Also consider pre-owned instruments to help with the budget issues. Mikethebook mentioned http://www.domnahlnagruen.com and he would also be a good choice in both offering a whistle close to budget and would work with you on voicing options, air requirements, reach issues etc., and you might be able to try out some models if these makers are close to home for you, that being a huge plus.
The Freeman Blackbirds are very nice / pure playing whistles and I both own and play three of them regularly. Jerry is a great guy and puts a lot of knowledge and skill in each of his tweaks. It is unclear from your post, but realize that the Blackbirds are high whistles and not low whistles. The Blackbirds are a very good value for what Jerry charges for them.
Good luck in your search and let us all know what you decide on and why. Take care and again, nice to have you aboard.
Isla75 wrote:
Ive always played Feadogs but am about to order a Jerry Freeman tweaked blackbird
Nice choice in whistle but the Blackbird is not a low D whistle, and I’m not sure if you understood that considering your title to post.
Id mentioned the Feadogs and Jerry Freeman simply as an indication of what Im used to and like…I know theyre not low D’s
I live in Tain so only 15 minutes from Alba Whistles, an hour from Hans and I believe theres a couple of music shops in Inverness that have Chieftains. I know I should probably go and try some out but I was fairly sure that, as MTB said, a non-breathy low D was a rare beast and didnt want to have to say to a maker that I didnt want to buy from them because I didnt like their whistles. Daft, I know because its all down to taste…oh, and cost!
From what youve said MTB, the Dixon may be my best bet…and its not that I dont like it, its just that I didnt know what the tone or breath requirement was like. Do you know what the breath requirement on a Dixon is?
And if you dont mind me asking, where abouts in Scotland are you?
I live way up north in Wick!!! It’s a bit isolated for a whistle-player unfortunately. There are not many like-minded souls up here:). I was down you way during the summer at Portmahomack(!) when I travelled down for the purpose of sitting in a workshop with famed Scottish whistle-player Marc Duff. Really nice guy! I’ll be back next summer if he’s appearing again.
On to the Dixon. Since my lovely Goldie takes warming up and is sometimes louder than I want to play, I’ve also considered the tapered bore low D . . . . and the jury is still out on it. I’m not especially fond of the tone preferring the breathy sound of the Overton/Goldie but it is a good and not especially loud whistle. As to breath requirements, it’s all relative. I believe it may take more than I’m used to with the Goldie but a lot less than the model it replaced. Someone on the forum also did an easy tweak of the whistle by inserting a strip of plastic sheet in the windway to reduce air requirements. I can’t remember who . . . but it seemed to work. I don’t think air requirements will be excessive but one does adapt to these things, and bear in mind the jump from a high D in terms of air requirements is to be expected. Phil Hardy did a great job with the Optima in making a low whistle for people moving from a high D but you don’t like the tone. I think talking to http://www.domnahlnagruen.com and Hans would be worthwhile in terms of what you would like in a whistle and see whether it is doable.
BTW you do understand the concept of backpressure when discussing air requirements do you?
Welcome. I own both the old style Dixon DX003 and the new TB003D. Both these whistles have a nice tone, difficult to explain. The older DX003 (No longer made) has a high air requirement and low to medium volumn. The finger reach is fairly easy compared to other low D’s, Chieftains, Susato’s, The TB003 has less air requirements but is still fairly high compared to the two mentioned above, it has more volumn than the DX003 (medium) and the finger reach is easier. The one I have has what I would call a reedy tone. Tony Dixon makes other Low D’s and you may wish to contact him by email (info@tonydixonmusic.co.uk) or telephone. The staff are very helpful.
From the reviews on C & F and elsewhere the Kerry Optima is fine instrument as is the MK Kelpie and Howard these are are within your budget. Unable to comment about Alba or Shearwater’s, no doubt other C & Fer’s will be able to. If you are able to try out a few you will find a whistle that suits.
Best of luck with your search.
If you are able to wait a while and save your pennies you may want to go for a hand crafted instrument and there many fine whistles made. Some have already been mentioned Goldie/Overtons, MK’s, Burkes, etc. Others would be Bleazy’s, Garvie’s, Reyburn’s, Impempe’s, Earthtone Whistles.
And I was up in your neck of the woods during the summer too MTB…at Bower…in fact, I think that WAS the summer…it was beautiful weather!
I did find the tweak you’d mentioned in one of the searches I did…if I cant buy what Im looking for off the shelf, that’d be an option. And the Optima isnt ruled out - I dont dislike the tone, it just wouldnt be my first choice…even when I was a flautist, my tone was far less breathy than most and that was probably through subconscious choice because it never actually occured to me that the breathiness was a desired sound!
Domnahl is an interesting option…(I think Hans is outside my price range)…I see there are some Domnahl na Gruen low D’s on ebay at the moment for £65. I cant listen to sound clips on the computer Im on at the moment so will take a look/listen tonight…
Re backpressure…Id love to say yes…but no. Ive read several definitions which have each made a little sense but havent made it completely clear. My best guess is that backpressure is the amount of resistance to the flow of air through an instrument…so a chanter would have a huge amount of back pressure and a flute would have no backpressure. Im used to the flute which I think uses the players breath control rather than backpressure dictated by the instrument…hence the reason a whistle with low breath requirement feels more natural for me. Does that make sense? Way off the mark or kinda getting there??!
Do definitely try some low D whistles, especially to see how comfortable/uncomfortable you are with the finger stretches required. You may find that inline holes are out of the question for you, since you said you have medium sized hands. Some offset holes may be necessary, even if you use piper’s grip. And to find out about tone and breath requirements it is again best to try out a number of whistles. Each make of whistle has its own tonal character. Good luck, and feel welcome to pop by, with no obligations!
PS: I would not worry about “backpressure” or general air requirements, since you said you played the flute!
Yes, you’re pretty close with your understanding of backpressure. It’s resistance, like trying to blow down a straw as opposed to a drainpipe to take extreme examples. So, in broad general terms, a whistle with low back pressure will have a larger windway, require more air, the bottom notes may be more fragile but the upper octave will be easier to play, more relaxed. Conversely, a whistle with high back pressure with have a smaller windway, use less air, have a strong bottom note and octave but the upper octave will require a lot of push, pressure to reach and sustain and the notes will be more “tense.” It’s your choice. My Goldie is what Colin Goldie calles an “easy blower” but it still has a moderate amount of backpressure. Air requirement isn’t too bad, not much more than the Optima which also has a moderate amount. Some people complain that Dixon whistles don’t have enough backpressure. There’s always a compromise.
But like you I prefer lower backpressure becasue of the ability to play higher. In fact I’m thinking of asking Colin to make me another low D that favours the upper octave . . . like Davy Spillane’s. His famous low D had virtually no backpressure at all and very high air requirements.
As I said you might fine you can get what you want at Domnahl Na Gruen but I think the Optima is a great choice for a first low whistle. Read the review at http://pipersgrip.50webs.com/Optima.html if you haven’t already. I hadn’t played a high whistle first but found the Optima very easy to learn on.
A close friend of mine bought a Dohmnahl low D for me when as a gift when he heard I had started whistleing.
It has a slight degree of breathiness to the sound, but not as much as the Alba I have my eye on.
I would say that the Dohmnahl looks and feels somewhat more home-made than the others, the finish isnt quite up there with the others I have seen (Chieftain, Alba, Impempe) but serves me nicely as a starter Low D.
I have the oposite likes in the Low D - I want the chiffiness, which Alba seem to supply in drove loads, so may not suit your tastes quite so well. If you arent phased by importing, the Impempe Low D comes in well within your budget, and from what I have gathered, is spaced in a freindly to smaller hands way - Ian makes them to order too, so offsetting would also be a possibility.
I visited John at Shearwater - his whistles sound really nice, but aesthetically are a touch disapointing - they are most certainly hand made!! Very keenly priced though, so if you dont hold the looks of the whistle is too high a regards, they too could be a good shout. John is a really nice chap too, and again, makes to order so some changes would be more then possible im sure. I have my eye on a ‘Pipers A’ that John makes as I have a load of old pipe music from my pipeband days, some of which isnt easy (to me at least!!) on a normal 6 holed whistle.
The Impempe is getting good press and you don’t have it import it now. Big Whistle http://www.bigwhistle.co.uk/shop_results.asp?search=2&maker=56&highlow=1&key=*&tunable=2&cat=*&GO=GO+� sell them for £105. Phil is a helpful guy. You could phone him and ask him about breath requirements etc. Indeed since Phil also sells the Dixon low D, you could ask him what he thinks would be best for someone requiring low air requirements.
Bencav, I’m curious about the breath requirements of the Dohmnahl you have.
Ian - thanks for the comparison between the two Dixons. I think the Dixon TB003 would be a decent enough starter low D for me - Im torn between spending as little money as possible to see if I take to it and spending a little more to get myself something decent.
Thanks for the advice Hans - always nice to have an excuse to pop into Findhorn and the input of someone who knows a great deal more than myself about the instrument in question can never be a bad thing!
Backpressure does still concern me. The flute came naturally to me and (from memory as I sit here at my desk), higher notes required a smaller ombature (sp) and lower notes required a larger ombature. Essentially, the player provides their own level of backpressure…I think. I bought a cheap Shaw whistle years ago and found it almost un-playable (if that is a word!) because of the breath requirement. I like the Feadogs because whether in low or high register, I find the notes easily achievable without feeling that its sapping my breath - almost as if I just have to think the note and it happens. I have borrowed a Dixon alloy high D and even that seems incredibly breath heavy as soon as you play anything above the staves…although part of that may be my lack of technique as some days it doesnt seem as bad!
MTB - it was Phil who recommended the Dixon…he’s been a great help…if he could only cure me of my indecision!!
Interesting observation. I borrowed one of Tony’s whistle/flute duos once from a friend. I’m not sure if the model # matches with anything you’ve written, or if he even makes them anymore. Anyway, my experience with that particular model was that breath requirements were VERY small. Small to the point that it was a struggle to even play the bottom D without breaking into the next octave. I was not remotely impressed with either the whistle or flute aspect of that model.
Disclaimer: I’m not trying to speak poorly of Tony himself. His Trad model was my go-to high D for a long time.
I second that - Phil is a cracking chap, really helpful and will offer great advice (even if that leads you to decide against something he has!!) He hasn’s any Low D Impempe in at the moment, and not likely to have any until end of Nov, which is a pitty as I really fancy one!
Breath requirements … I have nothing to compare against, but I never seem to struggle. It has a touch or back pressure which seems to help, but needs a good push to get into the top half of the second octave. It is very quiet though, which is great for me as I live in an apartment, but would appreciate something with a bit more oomph really! For £65 it is worth a go IMHO, my friend had it engraved with a lovely message for me, so it has a good bit of sentimental meaning to me too!
You might consider the Dixon TB 012 - the tunable version, it will still fall within your price range.
The Dixon has a big advantage in that it has small toneholes that suit my thin fingers, but my one takes a bit of air.
If you like the idea of an MK, then the toneholes are a bit larger but still small enough for someone with thin fingers. It has a higher back pressure than the Dixon and uses less air.
Yes, of course the MK Kelpie would be in the price range . . . a very high quality instrument specifically made for beginners. The great thing about an MK is that for the price of return postage, you can try it out. Misha is quite happy to send out instruments on that basis but says he gets very few back. But tone is not what you like.
I can say that the Shearwater whistles definitely have a clear tone, as opposed to the raspier quality of many other whistles. I own one in F and one in C and I’ve been very pleased, especially for the price. I don’t have a D at the moment. The one I received was a bit off from the others, so John Bushby had me send it back so he could look at it. The tone is certainly comparable to the others. The tone is different from my Chieftain, but I like it.
Mr. Bushby has been very helpful whenever I had an issue. Eventually, I’ll make some recordings and put them up on Youtube so people looking for examples can get a better idea of what to expect.
I agree with both Ytliek and Mikethebook in that you have several choices in excellent and very knowledgable makers right there in Scotland, though not all may fit each of your requirements. Hans Bracker comess immediately to mind as someone that might work with you in offering you options to bring you close to what you are looking for. If you just want a low D to play alone and you don’t need a tunable model, that could help keep you closer to budget, Also consider pre-owned instruments to help with the budget issues. Mikethebook mentioned 
