The best whistle for me? (Actual details inside!)

Whistle
1

I am classical flute player that is interested in learning and playing the low D. I have been searching for the best whistle for me, and the criteria I have landed upon are as follows:

Above all other aesthetic preferences, I am into ‘breathier’ sounds. I discovered this when playing my flute and other wind instruments. I really prefer the experience of playing in lower registers, slowly, with a lot of emotion, and I don’t mind the requirement for extra air production.

Some whistles I’ve heard seem to really ‘sing!’ much better than others as you slide into higher registers. I’m not sure if this is due to musicianship of the players, or if there are certain whistles that are best for this. I really like it, but I think this takes a back seat to my first point.

Some whistles seem to have very ‘warm’ sounds (the sort of ‘warm’ that a classical flute can have). I wonder if this is compatible with point 1, or if you have to sacrifice one for the other. I think I’d rather have mostly breathy, but some ‘warm’. This is hard to explain..

I have teeny tiny hands. I will make a point of playing with pipers grip. That being said, I will probably still need reasonable sized finger holes.

I will likely be playing alone for my own enjoyment most of the time, so I don’t think I need a tunable whistle. If there is a particular whistle known for being ‘better’ for solo players, this would be good to look into.

I like the look of all-metal whistles, rather than ones with plastic mouth pieces. This is totally aesthetic and not really important–I’d rather have the whistle that sounds and plays best for me.

From my research and listening to different whistles (online), I think I like the Shaw D best for me. It is known for requiring a lot of air, but the breathi-eness is great. However, a lot of the demonstrations I’ve watched feature some sort of ‘reverb’ effects in their videos, which make it really difficult to tell if I like the whistle or not. I would really like a whistle that sounds breathy, warm, small enough holes for small hands and doesn’t require reverb effects to mask flaws. Also, for some reason, most of the available videos for low D demos are from 2009 and before–was there some sort of boom in interest? I wonder how many of these low whistle companies are still around.

Thanks for your input!
-Meredith

What do you think?

2

Meredith,

Welcome to C&F. Your question, like all of those which begin by trying to describe tonal qualities with words, is difficult to answer without some additional information. But I’ll take a stab at it.

From my research and listening to different whistles (online), I think I like the Shaw D best for me. It is known for requiring a lot of air, but the breathi-eness is great. However, a lot of the demonstrations I’ve watched feature some sort of ‘reverb’ effects in their videos, which make it really difficult to tell if I like the whistle or not. I would really like a whistle that sounds breathy, warm, small enough holes for small hands and doesn’t require reverb effects to mask flaws. Also, for some reason, most of the available videos for low D demos are from 2009 and before–was there some sort of boom in interest? I wonder how many of these low whistle companies are still around.

I’m not aware of any “boom in interest”. It’s also not obvious which low whistle companies you’re referring to. I’m not aware of any recent low whistle makers who’ve quit, though it seems that Michael Copeland has slowed dramatically. But his instruments don’t appear to fit your criteria anyway. The Shaw instruments do require a lot of breath to play, likely the most difficult to play of all low D whistles IMHO as a result. It’s hard to quantify “teeny tiny hands” since that’s relative and you might enjoy great flexibility which would offset that somewhat. The Shaw is not extraordinary in hole size or spacing, but there are others which may better suit that aspect of your requirements. I certainly don’t consider the Shaw to “sing” in the high range. IMHO it is quite the opposite if I’m understanding your description to mean reaching these ranges easily and staying in tune without extraordinary effort.

You also don’t mention your budget which could easily be the deciding factor here. The Onyx by Sweet has nice small holes, easy to reach, and a beautiful high range. But it is not “breathy” and will cost at least twice as much as the Shaw. Burke makes an easy reach model which also is not “breathy”. MK could be described as breathy I suppose, the typical description being more like “dirty” and the high range up to second octave A is lovely but beyond that requires a lot of push and the hold size is very comfortable for most. They are very breath efficient too but again will cost at least 2 or 3X as much as the Shaw. The Kerry Optima may be an option for you since it meets many, though not all, of your criteria. It will have pretty standard hold size and spacing and will be the least expensive of these closer to the Shaw in price.

I haven’t really answered your question as to which I’d recommend though have I? Since there are so many variables to your question, if I were you I’d get the Shaw so you can at least decide what, if anything, you don’t like about it. The Shaw is not my cup of tea but YMMV and this is likely the best way for you to decide where you are willing to compromise. If you search this site you will find many discussions which start out with newcomers asking for recommendations. Most commonly the discussion will go to players who recommend their particular favorite since so much of this is subjective and up to personal taste. Often the best choice is to accept that trial and error is the best way to get what you want.

Good luck,
ecohawk

3

Maybe a Dixon TB022D - Flute whistle duo would be a good option - reasonably cheap, with the added bonus of a flute head. It’s plastic, but is less of a stretch on the fingers than some whistles. A cheaper option would be to buy a Generation Bb whistle - not really a low whistle, but a lovely tone for a few pounds.

Welcome!

4

Above all other aesthetic preferences, I am into ‘breathier’ sounds. I discovered this when playing my flute and other wind instruments. I really prefer the experience of playing in lower registers, slowly, with a lot of emotion, and I don’t mind the requirement for extra air production.

But don’t underestimate the air requirements of a Shaw. - My lowest Shaw is a Bb (a wonderful instrument, really, I love its sound), but even this comparably high pitch makes me dizzy in the head after a rather short while of playing. (I started playing the flute a couple of months ago, and I got over that embouchure dizziness by this time — but still, the Shaw sometimes makes me see funny lights…)

MK could be described as breathy I suppose, the typical description being more like “dirty” and the high range up to second octave A is lovely but beyond that requires a lot of push and the hold size is very comfortable for most.

Someone recently described the MK sound as like “dried onions”, IIRC. :slight_smile:

5

The MK really seems to fit what he is looking for. It is definitely a breathy sounding whistle, warm lower octave, with a nice sounding high octave. It isn’t too bad on air requirement, either, and it has good volume, for a low D.

I personally prefer the Burke, but it doesn’t really fit your “breathy” requirement. The MK is a fine whistle though, but is one of the more expensive ones. There are probably many “breathy” whistles for cheaper, but the MK is the only one I’ve tried that fits what you are looking for, and I think it would fit it nicely. It’s worth looking into all the options before deciding, though.

6

bearsalot - without sounding sarcastic - I wish you good luck - there are members here who have been looking for the ‘right whistle’ for years, have gone through many whistles, and are still looking - they even have a name for it - unfortunately the best course is to try before you buy but that’s almost impossible with low D’s usually not being available locally. Subjectivity is rampant here (like everyplace also) so one man’s meat etc. Financially, the easiest way might be to take a chance and buy a used low D from the used instrument section here and if you don’t like it, you can sell it and keep your loss to a minimum. Good luck.

7

Meredith, welcome to Chiff, and Low whistles!

Low D’s that have been described as breathy: Alba (original model), Chieftain OS (old style), Chieftain V3 (recent model), Shaw (as you mention as your preference), and possibly others that might have a breathiness (or maybe complex or buzz and chiff to them if the particular whistle was made more to that spec than the clearer tone, especially in the lower range.

Even Burkes have been made with a tone that has a bit more character in later years than they had been before *(edited to remove “dirtier” since it may be misleading or inaccurate), so, don’t overlook any that may have been described otherwise in the past. It’s best to take each whistle individually, as specs change over time. Individual whistles also vary as with anything handmade, and also different models made by such makers as Colin Goldie, Ronaldo Reyburn, Mike Burke, and Phil Hardy, among others that have evolved through the years.

Yes, as ecohawk said, small hands will differ, and being able to play various whistles will be an individual fit and adaptability-don’t understimate your abilities until you have tried to play a certain whistle. I remember when I first picked up my first Low D’s (my hands and fingers are medium size, with less than average flexibility)-it was a struggle at first-it didn’t seem possible that I could cover and stretch to fit the holes, but after just a little bit of time adjusting to piper’s grip, it became second nature. Then I wondered why I couldn’t do it at first-but it’s mostly just a matter of getting used to it over a short introduction to your hands, muscles and memory.

There are many good whistles out there-just pick one you think you will like, and try it out. The good news is that it probably won’t be your last, so look on it more as an introduction, and you won’t be so stuck on “which one”. From it you will learn, and next time you will have a better idea what may suit you. It is a process, and you may find one or more that tickle your fancy.

I have a preference for an inexpensive whistle, and that is a Susato Low D, even though the low E hole is large, it still is a whistle that many can play, if given time to get used to it, and it has a nice “woody” tone, that is not without character. I would suggest a tunable whistle too, so you can play along with recordings, even if you play alone mostly. I use mine to play along on may recordings-it just lends itself to it, and plays relatively quietly in my apartment setting. It’s also very light, and doesn’t require a long warm-up since it’s plastic. The Dixon conical bore might be a more hand friendly choice, and it’s also not very expensive.

Though, depending on your finances, there are many choices that may suit you better, but it’s very hard to say until you find out yourself what suits best for your preferences and pocketbook.

Also, you could always start out with an easier stretch by getting a Low whistle in Bb (as suggested below), or A, G, F or Eb (normal higer to lower keys) that would allow a small handed person an easier access to the lower keyed whistles. You can always get a Low D later, if you want to make it an easier and possibly more successful challenge, starting on a higher key, with a shorter spread on the holes. Personally, at the start of my introduction to the lows, I did find a Shaw Low A that I loved, and bought it first, but found very quickly that I wanted a lower tone, so went to the Low D right after. I also found the Shaw Low D to have a too indistinct or breathy tone on the lower notes, so I moved on from there.

I’ve enjoyed having at one time or another, most of the available low whistles, except for the most recent ones (never played an MK, Bracker, Chieftain V3 or any Alba, for that matter), but most of the others, though the list gets longer as time goes on.

One other point, and that is that a brass whistle will give you a warmer tone, if that is what you seek. I have a Reyburn narrow bore with the Maple head that I like a lot. I have wanted to try a Michael Burke Brass Low D for a long while, but never could afford it at the right time, but I believe it is a very satisfying whistle to play, especially solo, from what I understand.

We’re lucky to have the choices we have, especially in this economy! The used instrument exchange here on Chiff is your friend, as well as Doc Jone’s website http://www.shop.irishflutestore.com is, in finding suitable candidates for trial.

Good luck and have a blast!

8

Bearsalot,

As I’m sure you’re aware with flute the instrument itself, and the headjoint contribute a lot to the tone, but two players on the same instrument will produce two very different tones. It’s no different with whistles, low or otherwise.

After a lot of years of trying various low whistles I settled on a low D Reyburn that I absolutely love, but then that’s me. I also have an Ethnic Winds low D on it’s way, this whistle thing gets to be an addiction. But hey, they only cost a couple of hundred bucks, a lot less than a good headjoint for you fluters. My other whistles are Milligan’s and I really need to see if he’s making a low D yet, as his other whistles are incredible.

I’d stongly recommend that you go on you tube and check out the low D comparisons provided by Pancelticpiper. Richard is a member/frequent poster here and a better than average musician…well, actually a hell of a lot better than average.

Also, most of the whistle makers that have a web site will have some sound samples that you can check out as well. Unfortunately, many of the whistle reviews on this web site are long overdue for revision/updating but that won’t likely happen.

I didn’t see if you posted where in the world you are but if you do you’ll probably find some C&F folks in your neighborhood who’ll let you try out their whistles.

Welcome to the group and good luck with the search… :thumbsup:

JD

9

I’m a “Low D guy” and I’ve bought or tried most of the makes out there. This is because after playing flute for 35 years I got chronic hand-cramping which, luckily, doesn’t affect instruments which are held vertically, so I switched to Low D Whistles as being the most flute-equivalent thing.

About the small hands thing, it comes up all the time, and the sad fact is that all good-playing Low Ds have their holes in pretty much the same places because they’re forced to by the laws of acoustics. All Low D’s represent a compromise between human anatomy and acoustics, and the best compromise has been hit on, time and again, by all the best makers.

The exception, of course, are Low Ds that have a conical bore, the flattening effect of the progressive restriction of the bore allowing the lower-hand holes to be brought closer together (just as they are on an Irish flute). I’m not sure how many conical Low D’s are out there: I’ve owned a Shaw, a Dixon, a recent Copeland, and tried a couple Sweets, and none had the tone or performance that I want.

The maximum tone, in my opinion, comes from MKs: big, fat, dirty, complex, but still having a “core”. Unlike most Low D’s which, however complex their tone in the 1st octave become bland/colourless in the 2nd octave, the MK retains it’s kaval-like dirtiness in the 2nd octave. Also MK’s are very air-efficient.

Also tops in the tone department, in my opinion, are Overtons and Goldies. Very close too are Reyburns. I’ve not heard the newer “dirtier” Burkes; the Burke Low Ds (and other low Burkes) I’ve had all had a rather “clean” tone.

But MKs, Overtons, Goldies, and Reyburns are cylindrical-bore whistles which have the tonehole layout dictated by acoustics. (If you move the fingerholes closer together you ruin the evenness of the scale as regards both timbre and power/volume/strength.)

What you really need to do is PLAY all the various makes and see what works for you. Words can’t really help much.

10

If you are in the UK*, and are interested, you can have this one for free. The whistle head has been modified, but replacements are easily available. It even has a flute head as well (I never mastered the embouchure). It was given to me by Tony Dixon, but does not get much playing these days as I have too many low D whistles (and have just been gifted another), and it is a little ‘breathy’ for me.

It would not win a beauty contest, and the cork seals were replaced with teflon tape years ago, but it might make a good starter.

(*Outside the UK I would ask you to pay for the postage)

11

Tell me more, pancelt. Has there been a change of design we should know about?

12

My brass viper is from 09/2012, and it isn’t dirty sounding in any way, unless he changed them more recently than that. I suppose it’s possible they were previously even more pure sounding, but I can’t really imagine that being so. This is a very clean sounding low whistle.

13

I believe Richard was referring to my comment about the newer Burkes being “dirtier” than the old ones-which I gathered from a post by Cranberrydog back in 2008 referring to his new Aluminum Viper back then:

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/hats-off-to-mike-burke-my-new-viper-a-quick-look/54446/1

My use of “dirtier” was probably a mistake, from what I gather now-though it’s just a matter of symantics to grope for a description of tone. Others have commented that they know no Burkes with a dirty tone, so I edited my post to say “more expressive”, and leave it at that. Ever since I read Cyril’s comments about his new Burke, it stuck in my brain as Burkes being differently voiced in later years.

I haven’t tried one since about 2006 or 2007, before the revoicing Mike was quoted as saying in Cyril’s post in 2008. But I’ve wanted to try them-just never got the chance, and have been going down my own road in Low D’s since, among other things.

14

Yes I was referring back to that mention. The Burke Low D I played was made in 2006 (as I recall) and though the tone was very nice it was clean/pure/colourless compared to an MK or Overton.

I actually prefer the tone of the MK to any other Low D I’ve tried; I’ve owned five MK Low Ds now, and the tone of all of them was, in my opinion, more interesting than any of the three or four Overton Low Ds I’ve owned over the years. I most of all like the way the MK’s tone stays “dirty” or kaval-like in the 2nd octave where most whistles go bland.

15

Another option, I use it due to some finger problems but it might be useful for smallish hands too, is to offset the third and last holes. My Reyburn is this way as is the Ethnic Winds that I have on order.

I use my little finger on the bottom hole rather than the ring finger, took less than a week to get used to the “new” fingering.

JD

16

Go for the Shaw Low D, I think that you will not regret it!
I played low D whistle for a few years and just recently I started again.
I owned any possible brand, with the exception of MK.
I like “breathy” whistles with “chiff”. My favorites were Chieftain V3 and Goldie,
and Alba Vibe. I also like whistles that are a bit “hard” to play, I mean where the low octave is not
too fragile and you do not risk to go up to the higher octave if you just push a bit.
I do not like to play a whistle too gently, like it was a recorder.
After I started again to play low D, I bought a Dixon tapered bore, a Kerry Optima (this is not arrived yet) and
a Shaw low D from Elderly Instruments that I received two days ago.
I LOVE the Shaw Low D ! It is breathy, its sound has a lot of character, it i"easy reach" i.e. I can choose
to play either in the traditional way or with the piper grip. And it is gorgeous looking.
Compared to the Dixon (which is a very respectable whistle with an excellent sound, for the price) the Shaw low
end notes are not fragile and you go up to the upper octave only when you want, not incidentally.
I hope that this “mini review” will help you !

17

my MK low D pro seems to meet most of those requirements (though it is tunable). the Kelpie is a cheaper version (only non-tunable?) and i’m sure is still great.
i highly recommend MK. plenty of volume, warm, expressive breathy (but not raspy).

18

The problem with the Kelpie is that it is out of stock and there is a waiting list. I know it because I tried to get one for myself !

19

How about the Hamilton Low D? Check out this article http://www.hamiltonflutes.com/Low_Whistles.html. It is a warm and breathy sound with a lovely upper octave and holes that aren’t too big. I’m thinking about getting one myself.

20

Big Whistle has a few in stock.