I just thought I would share a few words concerning uillean pipes bags. I am officially throwing in the towel when it comes to leather bags in favor of synthetic leather/ vinyl bags, sometimes called Naugahyde.
The main problem with the leather bags is leakage; hand sewn or machine sewn they still leak. Pouring staunching goop into the bag just make a mess Leather is also more expensive. It is difficult to get glue to hold on finished leather such as the so called “elk hide.” Worst of all leather is very expensive.
Hello all,
Plastic marine vinyl bags are the way to go. Using a good contact cement to glue the seams makes these bags absolutely airtight and impervious to weather. If one does spring a leak the bag can be replaced quickly and cheaply.
As to longevity plastic bags easily last fro 5-10 years. In 1975 I made a vinyl bag for Seamus Ennis and it was still going when he died. Around this time I also showed Paddy Keenan how to make these bags and he still uses them.
One tip…if you choose to make a Vinyl bag be sure and let the glued seam dry for and entire week before using the bag.
When I was first learning to play, my loaner practice set included a vinyl bag. I remember having a heck of a time keeping the bag in place under my arm. (My teacher referred to it as being like trying to keep a greased pig under your arm.)
I haven’t used a vinyl bag since, and it’s possible that I wouldn’t have the same trouble now that I know (sort of) what I’m doing. I’m curious, is there a lot of variation among vinyl bags? Are certain types better than others?
I intensely dislike vinyl bags for the reasons Tim alludes to. The shape is also disagreeable, since the seam needs to be wider than that of a leather bag of the same size. I agree with Pat that bag seasoning is also unpleasant. Fortunately I am able to obtain leather bags that are very airtight without seasoning - the L&M ones are usually (though perhaps not always) satisfactory in this regard.
I’ve played individual leather bags for upwards of 10 years, and seen still older ones that were airtight, so it can be done.
That’s because most naugas are raised on factory farms in unsanitary conditions, resulting in that characteristic odor. Look for bags made from free range naugas fed with organic coal chips. Their hides smell like Cretaceous ferns. Lovely!
For some time I have been “experimenting” with various means of seasoning and finally came across something that really convinced me (so far, I yet haven´t any “long-term-experiance” with it, so I wouldn´t yet recommend it): You get this fluid beeswax for antique furniture (by Clou here). You mix it with about 5% neatsfoot-oil, pour it in the (leather) bag et voila (about ~ a third of a drinking glass for a new bag). No warming up, no mess, but good smell. The big advantage: The older sets were seasoned with beeswax as well - so I simply pour this in for seasoning anew. If (unlikely but hey) a little booby should be blown out (in time) and block the reed - you can simply squeeze the lips. It squeezes into the pores of the cane and helps to smoothen and season it from inside. It once happened (not with this but with a stuff called beeswax balm and no oil yet) and I didn´t notice any change in sound.
I can vouch for L&M leather bags. I’ve been using them on my GHB for almost a decade now and never changed the bag. Besides once you get past the “Dear god, what IS that smell strangely similar to lamb fat..??” from the can of Airtight, it’s not really so bad.
I do agree with you Pat; I made my first vinyl bag 15 years ago, because I didn’t like the size of my leather bag (and where the main stock was placed). I made a couple of ones, thanks to the low cost of the products, and I found exactly what I needed.
Plastic bags are airtight, reliable…and cheap. Due to the sunny conditions of some summer gigs, I even made white bags: looks really terrible, but helped me out with the tuning sometimes, keeping the reeds not too warm.
Elk Tanned Leather (or more accurately “Chrome Tanned Leather”) is airtight without seasoning. Back in the 70’s we used to season them (with Hardie Airtight) because they were not airtight. I’ve learned over the last 7 years that if the leather is properly tanned, it doesn’t leak. If the bag is properly stitched, glued, or riveted, it can be made airtight along the seam as well. I’ve restored over 40 sets of Highland pipes over the last 7 years and I’ve had Mark Cushing make bags for almost every one of them…some of them sewn, some riveted and some glued…all of them Elk Tanned Leather…all of them airtight without seasoning. He has also made the bags for my smallpipes and for four or five of the Uilleann Pipes I’ve had…all of them “Elk Hide” and none of them leaked. I use sheepskin on my personal GHB, which does require seasoning. I would never use seasoning on a bag used with bellows blown pipes as I think it’s too messy and has the risk of getting on the valves and reeds.
I don’t mean to put down vinyl…it might work better than leather…I’ve never tried it (although I’ve tried various synthetic GHB bag conconctions).
I’ve had negative experiences with marine vinyl. When I started, my practice set had a marine vinyl bag. It lasted about a year before the vinyl cracked on the top side of the neck. A few years later I got a set of bellows with a marine vinyl gusset. It lasted just short of 2 years. I replaced the gussed with another marine vinyl gusset and that one lasted only 3 months.
I heard Paddy Keenan say his father used to make bags from the inner-tubes of truck tires.
Why would you need a Gore Tex uilleann pipe bag (unless you are playing outside, in the rain frequently)? I think they are useful for Highland pipers because they are blowing wet air into the thing. If you are blowing moisture into your uilleann pipes, then the bag material is probably the least of your problems.
I made a handful of bags from vinyl this year and I can’t say I’ve had a bother with them at all.
I had 2 of them as a kid and I thought I’d chance one again.
I made it as to have a spare bag (and bellows) in the workshop so I can be tuning reeds etc. without having to bring my personal set in to the workshop. As a result it only gets 8 to 10 hours work a month but so far so good.
I was thinking of trying a double skin bag with vinyl and leather. You’d have all the positive properties of each material, in theory anyway.
Has anyone tried it?
The debate will always rage about leather versus vinyl personally i aggree with Pat.
To be fair i have seen excellent leather bags that were a joy to play and also some that were terrible and the same is true for the vinyl.
While the vinyl bags are “simple” to make proper care and dilligence is essential, we are after all talking about making a part of a musical instrument, a highly sophisticated one at that
I think that sometimes people try and make them and thinking that they are easy they are led into a false sense of security the end result being sloppy work. Well made vinyl bags are solid and give great performance especialliy those who would have high pressure sets.
Without getting to much into it vinyl bags can easily be " simulated" so that they look and feel like a pure leather bag. Perhaps those who dont like the feel of vinyl should try this method by coating a ready made vinyl bag with a thin hide “outer”. I know some will still not like them but there may be a few who could become converted .
Brian Howard did some experimenting with them a few years back. Didn’t really workout i believe for a few reasons. I have played one (although not one off Howard ) and it wasn’t for me at all
While this is true i have found that the shape and size can easily be manipulated to give the player what they need.
ps
for anyone going to have a go at making bags please do so safely please
the fumes can be quite overpowering. I once had …shall we say an “otherwordly” experience due to fume inhalation followed by a headache and sickness that i thought i was dying
So please work in a well ventilated area, outside is great providing weather and tempurature are good.
Making your own bags is a great thing to do and when you succeed it will really make feel good about yourself and your pipes.
Bill Ochs told me he had a bag made for the Green Fields of America tour in the early 80s that was vinyl with a leather seam. Not quite what you’re suggesting, but it was a “hybrid technology.” Probably it was McHarg he went to, Mike was the Walmart of pipe bags in them days.
About the hybrid bags, Bannatyne in Scotland makes GHB bags that are Goretex fused to leather. The result is a bag that doesn’t let moisture out, bad for the GHB but fine for UPs I guess.
About the bag slipping out from under the arm, GHB players sewn a patch of a non-slip fabric called Dycem (sp??) on their bagcover which keeps the bag in place. Corduroy bagcovers give you a good grip too I think.
It is funny, in a way, the thought process that runs “I just paid $10,000 for my new uilleann pipes. Hmmm… now for a bag I’ll buy a scap of vinyl and crudely glue it together and see what happens…”
vinyl bags can easily be " simulated" so that they look and feel like a pure leather bag. Perhaps those who dont like the feel of vinyl should try this method by coating a ready made vinyl bag with a thin hide “outer”. I know some will still not like them but there may be a few who could become converted 
due to fume inhalation followed by a headache and sickness that i thought i was dying 