Keys of the tunes

Whistle
21

MMMMmmmmmmmmm -------> tasty musical jargony words - yum, love em!

Here you go Martin - try this less-munchy version of all the above (but remember how excited folks get about it the next time you wanna stir the pot :wink: )

#1: Two sharps on the music means it’s in the key of D
One sharp on the music means it’s in G

#2: now think of a piano keyboard.
There are two groups of black keys - a set of two and a set of 3. Our western musical system is made up this way. We have tones and semi-tones - a tone is made up of 2 semi-tones. It’s better to see than read - so :
The basic scale is made up like this:

(root-note/1st-note)
add a tone (2nd note)
add a tone (third note)
add a semi-tone (4th note)
add a tone (5th note)
add a tone (6th note)
add a tone (7th note)
Add a semitone (8th note - this is the octave where it all starts over again at 1 - but an octave higher)
add a tone (2nd note)
add a tone (third note)
add a semi-tone (4th note)
add a tone (5th note)
add a tone (6th note)
add a tone (7th note)
Add a semitone (8th note - this is the octave where it all starts over again)

All the bold bits in that list have a black note between them - that’s why the piano has those groups of 2 and 3 then 2 then 3 …

Another way is saying:
**tone, tone,**semitone,**tone,tone,tone,**semitone.

OK - that’s the key.
In the case of a piano the key is C:
CC#
DD#
E
FF#
GG#
AA#
B
CC#
DD#
E
FF#
GG#
AA#
B
CC#
…

But in the case of a whistle it looks like this:
DD#
EF
F#
GG#
AA#
BC
C#
DD#
EF
F#
GG#
AA#
BC
C#

The key of G is different again - by making the C# into a C-natural it changes the pattern - which is still tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone-tone-semitone (G, A, B, C, D< E, F#, G etc)

Modes

Modes are simply where you start and end within the pattern.

If you start on the 1st note we call it “Ionian”
if you start on the 2nd note it’s “Dorian”
third note “Phrygian”
Fourth note “Lydian”
Fifth “Mixolydian”
Sixth “Aolean” (also known as “Minor”)
Seventh “Locrian”
Then the octave starts all over again at 8th

In “POP” (Performance-On-Payment) and most “classical” music, we usually only encounter the Ionian and Aolean modes (otherwise known as major and minor).

But in the more sophisticated “folk” music we have use of the more subtle shadings the modes can yield - this is very evident in the ITM tradition that even uses Locrian(which is normally unused [shunned] elsewhere).

As a rule of thumb, we can say that anything with a flattened third note is a minor, but that is an over-simplification. Each of the modes have a primary emotional message that underpins the theme of the musical message.

I urge you to explore these. The best way is to simply play scales up and down. Starting on note #1 (D - Ionian) and play def#gabc#d. Experiment with it - get its feel. Then progress to note #2 - the Dorian - ef#gabc#d, #3, #4 and so on.

Understanding this helps to unravel the entry into the root message in Irish (and other “folk”) tunes - without it you will probably get it wrong. It’s not that difficult and it gets you free from the primitive Perfomance-On-Payment styles such as “classical and POP” then you can start to have a musical expression with relevance to you, your life and the lives that you communicate with (AKA your community). It is why you bought a whistle.

Hope this helps!

(Edited to say: What we regard as “Classical” music is simply an historical collection of works that were pop music before the advent of mass media. Our respective governments find it convenient to fund the illusion that “classical” is “culture” - this helps them avoid addressing real culture that may be antithetical to their objectives - which usually is the case because culture is not dependant on “official” (revised) history whereas wealth is totally dependant on it. I could go on, but I would have to resort to jargon :laughing: ).

22

Mitch: Thank you very much for your explanation!! I’m being able to understand it better and better.

Regards,
Martin

23

Not that anyone should care particularly, but I think you are using “scale” and “mode” very loosely.

Ionian, Dorian, Aeolian etc - those are modes, and only modes.
Major, minor - those are keys or scales.

Major keys sounds like the Ionian mode, but the system of reference is different. Same way, a (natural) minor key sounds like an Aeolian mode, but again the reference point is different.

I guess it’s fine to use scale as a higher-order term to refer to any series of notes across an octave.

Major/minor make sense only for the common-practice period of Western Art Music, and while there is some overlap, neither Greek tetra-chordal music, Gregorian chants and modal church music, nor ITM with it’s modes are the same as common-practice Western Art Music and the way musical meaning is constructed is different for each.

Sorry Bothrops, et. al. Carry on, everybody.

24

Not really, Bloo. I’m deliberately trying to be fairly consistent here.

Scale: An ascending (or descending) sequence of notes with an anchor tone and a particular intervallic structure.

Key: The tonic or anchor note (“letter name”) of a scale or tune.

Mode: The intervallic structure of a scale or tune.

Yeah, in this context I don’t really care a fig about Western art music practice or Greek or Gregorian or Byzantine or Slavonic modes or Turkish makrams or Indic ragas. But thank goodness there’s a common parlance in ITM practice that is both simple and practical, and effective for communication.

So Major, Minor, Mixolydian and Dorian are the 4 most common ITM modes. If you want to be fancy, you can call Major = Ionian and Minor = Aeolian, at the risk of having your beer poured on your head. There’s no empirical difference in ITM. They’re just labels that everybody uses and understands. Each with implied harmonic approaches that tend to be quite transparent within the tradition itself.

If by point of reference you mean that modes are rooted in tetrachord theory, and major and minor art practice is not, then sure. Different concepts of cadence, dominant and sub-dominant, etc. But I’ll stake you a free pint if that’s what the guy next to me has in mind when he says, “Here’s a nice G Major chune.” And if the guy next to him replies, “Which historical framework do you mean?”

Key is definitely a loose, weaselly word in the wild. But don’t blame me. I’d rather say a tune in the “key” of DMix “uses predominantly the tonal resources of a major diatonic scale constructed on a D tonic using the flat seventh intervallic pattern commonly referred to in ITM as Mixolydian but which may differ in implied harmonic structure from Byzantine octoechoic practice under that same modal designation.” But I prefer to keep my head dry.

My apologies, too. Bloomfield and I definitely need to hole up someday in a conference center cabin in Asilomar or Davos and hammer out the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. :stuck_out_tongue:

25

most “classical” music, we usually only encounter the Ionian and Aolean modes (otherwise known as major and minor)

Well, maybe just a bit of over statement here. A lot of the classical music that I have played is in other modes at some point.

Nathan

P.S.
Sorry this is sort of off topic. :slight_smile:

26

Scandalous taxonomic frivolity.

Yeah, in this context I don’t really care a fig about Western art music practice or Greek or Gregorian or Byzantine or Slavonic modes or Turkish makrams or Indic ragas. But thank goodness there’s a common parlance in ITM practice that is both simple and practical, and effective for communication.

So Major, Minor, Mixolydian and Dorian are the 4 most common ITM modes. If you want to be fancy, you can call Major = Ionian and Minor = Aeolian, at the risk of having your beer poured on your head. There’s no empirical difference in ITM. They’re just labels that everybody uses and understands. Each with implied harmonic approaches that tend to be quite transparent within the tradition itself.

I agree they’re labels everyone uses; I doubt they are labels everyone understands.

If by point of reference you mean that modes are rooted in tetrachord theory, and major and minor art practice is not, then sure. Different concepts of cadence, dominant and sub-dominant, etc. But I’ll stake you a free pint if that’s what the guy next to me has in mind when he says, “Here’s a nice G Major chune.” And if the guy next to him replies, “Which historical framework do you mean?”

It’s not so far fetched when the guy next to you starts playing A minor chords below a gapped-scale tune that doesn’t either a c or a c# in it.

Key is definitely a loose, weaselly word in the wild. But don’t blame me. I’d rather say a tune in the “key” of DMix “uses predominantly the tonal resources of a major diatonic scale constructed on a D tonic using the flat seventh intervallic pattern commonly referred to in ITM as Mixolydian but which may differ in implied harmonic structure from Byzantine octoechoic practice under that same modal designation.” But I prefer to keep my head dry.

See, you’re just a show-off. I care deeply about music. :stuck_out_tongue: Well, let’s put it this way: I wouldn’t even pretend to know anything about Byzantine octoechoic somethings. But I do know a cadence when I hear it, and when I don’t.

My apologies, too. Bloomfield and I definitely need to hole up someday in a conference center cabin in Asilomar or Davos and hammer out the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. > :stuck_out_tongue:

Why not Ennis or Spiddal?

27

I’ve struggled with the Mode stuff and I’m still not sure I understand it, but I’m going at it once more due to this thread. Maybe if I think about it some more, real hard I’ve eventually get it.

KAC

28

What sort of instrument do you play? If it happens to be a whistle or a flute, or something that produces one note at a time, then don’t worry about it! Let the silly fellows with their citterns and guitars worry about it. Just play the tune, and whenever something sounds funny, scowl at the guitar player or, better yet, kick the banjo player.

29

Which is exactly the confusing point. I mean the way modes are explained is that each starts on a different note of a given scale say C but that’s not really what they are because if you construct each of those modes on the same Tonic note and apply the pattern from the original scale you’ll end up with a different key signature for each one. So in some sense they are “subsets” of a given scale, but are also a totally different way of creating music which I (as I said above) struggle to comprehend.

Modes seem also to have to do with the range of notes, which is another concept that seems a bit foreign to me in that a scale in a given key in theory goes up and down forever (even past the limits of human hearing).

I’m probably just missing something simple, so someone, Please! clue me in!

KAC

30

Well, that could work, but still leaves me with a hollow feeling.

KAC

31

the modes are the moody things :stuck_out_tongue:

32

Moody or moldy?

KAC

33

Oh, man! I’ve been reading through all those threads and now my head hurts I’m going to bed… :boggle:

KAC

34

I think of these ideas about keys in a pragmatic way: when you’re playing a certain passage in an Irish traditional dance tune, what chord sounds “right”? In some cases a number of different chords sound equally right. Let’s face it, many Irish dance tunes don’t fit into the usual 1-4-5-1 type of harmonic progression. And many passages are harmonically vague.
Take, for a common example, The Earl’s Chair, and other tunes which begin with a number of repeated B’s.
I’ve heard accompanyists play B minor, G major, and E minor chords there. Which is “right”?
And the second part of Earl’s Chair: is it E minor at the start? Or C major?

It’s no easier in airs. Women of Ireland begins in a way that strongly suggests that it’s in A minor. But both parts “resolve” to G.

Then you have “inflection” as some Irish musicologists have called it, where certain notes, especially F and C, flip between sharp and natural from time to time in a tune. In the version of Banish Misfortune I learned and still play these notes alternate so often that one would be hard pressed to say what scale, or mode, or key or whatever the tune is in.

Nevertheless a guitarist with a good ear and an large supply of chords at his disposal, including “open 5th” chords, can fairly quickly come up with plausible accompaniment to any Irish tune.

35

Or about five chords + barre I’d say :slight_smile: