Keyed Olwell not Olwell's keys

Irish Flute
1

How’s that for an interesting topic line?

I ran into a keyed Olwell recently whose keys were not his – hence i didn’t recognize the flute.

turns out they were retrofitted onto a keyless Olwell by another maker of known name (I won’t post his name since I’ve not spoken with him, but it was clearly his work).

They were post-mounted keys (of course since the flute was keyless and, hence, had no blocks).

The instrument’s owner said they simply didn’t want to wait the X years to get a keyed Olwell and approached this maker, who gladly drilled holes into the flute and added the keys.

I thought most makers out there wouldn’t retrofit the work of another maker. anyway, that’s been my experience in conversations with several. I can see where the economy and a long wait list my cause someone to run a shortcut to get keys. But isn’t it no longer an Olwell since someone else unfamiliar with the bore cuts he uses drilled into it?

I’m interested in your feedback and thoughts.

2

FWIW, I once asked Patrick O if it would be OK with him if I had this done to my Olwell keyless Pratten.
He said he preferred that I not do it and I didn’t.

3

Only comment regarding the ethics of modifying another maker’s flute from me would be that once the flute passes from the maker’s hands, the new owner can do anything up to turning it into firewood if they want. What I feel would be unethical would be to represent it as a “stock” Olwell flute after said modification. If you put an Olwell or Wilkes headjoint on an antique flute, even if it is a direct reproduction made as accurately as possible from the original it is no longer a R&R, FH&P… in my opinion. Making that level of change brings it out of the realm of a renovation, though I suppose it could be argued that crack repair might be viewed similarly (not by me as I think a distinction can be made between repairs and renovations, though drawing the line can be problematic). Is recutting the embochure a renovation (I would say yes, but some might argue)? Is adjusting the tone holes with wax or shellac to modernize intonation? How about repadding witha different type of pad (say going from "purse-pads to modern leather clarinet pads)?

Tough call all around. I can see why Pat would prefer not to have a flute with his name still on it get additional holes drilled in the body. Not to say that another maker would not be capable of doing a high quality key installation that would still maintain the essential characteristics of the flute. It would still, by definition, be different than keys being added at the Olwell shop.

I know in antique watch repair the community has a standard of adding the initials and a date of repair inside the case (for pocketwatches). To bad flutes don’t have a similar repair history location.

4

I think what really matters is how it plays. For example, when you add a Wilkes or Olwell head to an antique flute it can often end up being a better playing flute than the original, whose head may have suffered some wear or damage. The modification in that case has created something of increased value to a player. However, to a collector it may have decreased the value. Personally, I tend to view these things a little more from the player’s perspective, but I can understand both sides. It really depends what you are looking for.

So if the addition makes it a better playing flute its potentially a good thing. I wonder though about how well the resulting keyed Olwell keyless flute plays. Does it play like a keyed Olwell? Did it have a negative impact in any way? Is the result somewhere in between?

I can see that adding holes and keys will change the bore slightly, but I wonder whether Patrick uses the same bore on his keyed and keyless flutes anyway. If so, it may not be too difficult for a good maker to copy the position of the keys/holes on a keyed Olwell.

Is this the start of a new business opportunity in “tweaked” Olwell flutes? :astonished:

5

Flutes are made to be played and nothing else, if it plays well I wouldn’t care if it was modified by a different maker. The second maker should mark the flute though, something like “keys by ***”…

6

I think I know what you mean, Latticino, and, assuming I do, I agree with you, in part. I’m having a small problem with your terminology. For me, a “renovation” is a “repair”. It’s putting the flute back like new. But I agree with you that putting a new headjoint on an old flute makes the flute something different. That’s not a “renovation”, to me - that’s at least a modification, and may be an improvement, depending on how succesful the modification is.

As for David’s little moral conundrum, I wouldn’t ever do it. If I had bought a flute from or by a respected maker, I would at least ask that maker before making any changes to the flute. I think this should be done out of respect for the skill of the maker and respect for his reputation. I’m surprised that another respected maker would agree to do it.

I wonder how I’d feel though, if it were my flute and it performed more like the flute I wanted to play? Having got over the initial moral aversion to doing it, would I in fact be relishing this new object created from the input of two skilled craftsmen?

7

Adding keys is like customizing a car or even having a contractor work on your home. There is nothing taboo about having something you own worked on by an expert other than the original maker unless you feel the original piece loses value by so doing. If you have confidence in the person performing the work, I wouldn’t think twice.

8

In my mind it’s not really an Olwell if someone did a modification so drastic as adding keys. That action can greatly alter the sound of a flute if it is not done to the makers specs. Where the holes are placed, how are they undercut, how are the holes beveled on the outside etc.; these are very distinct things that lead to the ultimate sound of a flute. I build flutes myself and if another maker tampered with one of my instruments I’d feel insulted. Why can’t people just be patient and wait for a keyed Olwell, 6 years is not very long in the whole scheme of things.

9

Life is short. I’ll bet a lot, maybe most, of the players who can afford to buy a bespoke flute are in their forties, like me. How many years of playing do we have left? Arthritis, neck pain, back problems, hearing failure, and even skin cancer (if it happens on your lip) might be catching up with us. Even if we’re lucky enough to live into our 70s, we might not be able to play. In this context, six years is very, very long to wait.

I’m glad to hear that flute makers care about what happens to their instruments after they leave the shop. It means they care about them when they’re making them. But they need to let go at some point.

10

This is a no-no in my book!

Its just bad business practice. If I am working on adding keys to a flute that I made, and I mis-drill a hole or do some otherwise unforgivable damage to a flute section I simply make another and replace it, with one of higher quality of possible. If this happened while I was working on an Olwell or some other maker’s flute - then I’d be in a real bind. I just can’t go to Pat and ask him to quickly make me a replacement joint for the one I just destroyed. Plus it would cost me and I would have to wait behind everyone else in his queue to be fair. I don’t want to be in the position of saying “I can’t get your Olwell flute to you yet. Check back in 7-10 years. I hope to be done by then.” Thus this is a big taboo to me. Bad for one’s stress levels and blood pressure!

Also for repairs or modifications of some other maker’s flute to make it better - and even if I live close to you and not on some far away continent in another hemisphere - take your repairs and modifications to the maker you originally did your business with. That is part of the karma of doing business with her or him, and not supporting your local maker. And I am usually too busy to handle someone else’s basket cases!

I do worry about my flutes out in the world to some degree, and hope that when I send these out I never see or hear about them, because usually doing so means that something bad has happened such as a crack, or the flute getting sat upon at a session or dropped (by far these are the two most frequent accidents that happen). A number of flutes have been chewed up by dogs, usually just after oiling. Cracks occur frequently when people simply fail to break them in properly, or store them poorly.

But whatever happens to them out in the world is beyond my control, except for what I warranty. Thus if someone else adds keys or a tuning slide or any unwarranted googah to the flute, or attempts to adjust the voicing or tuning, the warranty expires immediately when some other maker touches it and modifies it. I suspect that Pat would do the same with this particular flute in question.

So go ahead and turn the flute into a lamp, load it into the woodstove (these actually burn very well - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFQhO3LWtQk&feature=g-all ), or use it for baseball practice. Or add keys to it or modify the voicing. The results may turn out very nice or it may be a disaster. But don’t come crying to the original maker.

The situation changes when that maker stops making or passes away. Assuming I get to do this long enough to make another 2000 flutes I will have about 5000 flutes out in the world when I pass on. Who knows what will happen to them in the distant future? Some will end up in museums, some in private collections, some in landfills, some in pawn shops, some in antique stores, and hopefully some will still be played. In 3-4 centuries they will be as precious as the few that made it here from the Renaissance. Maybe. And along the way will be makers and repairers who might measure them, modify them, certainly repair and service them, and scholars who will research them and publish obscure articles about me in some technical journal. I may become a fad even which will then fade into obscurity. We are doing the same for Firth, Hall, Pond, Boosey, Rudall, Hudson, Metzler, Clementi, Prowse, etc. Part of me enjoys knowing that people will know my name far into the future beyond my days through my flutes but few if any will understand me as well as my close friends and family! Its a sufficient enough notoriety I suppose.

I am off to see Dorado Schmitt and Ludovic Beier this eve at Jazz Alley. Two of my favorite Gypsy Swing musicians. Oh boy!!!

On another note - Pizza: Our National Vegetable. Go USA!

Casey

11

one of the most beautiful flutes i have seen was an Olwell keyless, where a different maker added keys in the style of the Abel flat pad pillar mounted keywork.
it’s a tough call since ordering a custom flute is so personal and one developed a relationship with the maker, to turn around and send it to be keyed knowing the maker would cringe…

my dad is a painter (abstract), years ago a hotel ordered some large painting from him…later he foundout they cut the paintings into smaller ones and re-framed…i can only imaging how painful it was for him.

12

I’m sorry, but I regard that as an extremely poor comparison. Destroying a work of art is a far cry from customizing a musical intrument. I sincerely doubt a flutemaker of any repute would cause harm to an instrument made by another maker. I understand Casey’s point that even he would not risk the possibility of making a mistake, but if the maker undertaking the work stipulates that he cannot offer guarantees, it is the flute owner’s decision to make. I would imagine that if there is a reasonable risk, Olwell would decline since he probably has better things to do than risk having to make a new flute to replace the one that went bad. If the risk is not that great, someone in Olwell’s league should be able to do just as well. If it is your flute and you feel that Olwell stands alone, well then your decision is made. I doubt very much that this is the case.

13

Cubitt, i was comparing the two from the point of the maker, not the user. this is more complex then just considering the “owners” point of view in my opinion.

14

I have been asked to do this several times (oddly enough by Olwell owners).
I’d only do it with the original maker’s blessing.
The other thing is that the positioning (ergonomically and for tuning) of the keys on my flutes has been worked out through trial and error on earlier prototypes - I can’t guarantee that the positioning is going to be 100% on a one off job applied to someone elses flute. This combined with the high cost of such work means that so far I’ve never done it.
I wouldn’t be happy if someone else fitted keys to one of my flutes.

15

Adding keys is like customizing a car or even having a contractor work on your home. There is nothing taboo about having something you own worked on by an expert other than the original maker […]


16

As said previously - if it works and it plays well, then I don’t see the problem! Flutes are objects… things intended to produce music. Of course some are very pretty and very valuable, and some are less. But in my opinion, it’s the music which is the most important part here.. so if adding keys makes for better music, then go for it!

Altering or changing a modern flute, to me, is very different from doing the same to an old original. I don’t know why!

If makers don’t want their flutes to be adjusted in any way, and are unable to do it themselves because of waiting lists (going to the original maker should OF COURSE be the 1st port of call) then it’s a tricky situation. I could imagine that makers want to leave behind a ‘legacy’ of flutes that people will remember them by. But players want flutes to play, and shouldn’t have to wait ages to get complete 8 key instruments.

My current flute, that was introduced to me by Jem, has had improvements and major work done to it by Robert Bigio, Stephane Morvan, Peter Worrell and a few others. I’ve got absolutely no problems with this, and I’ve even tuned a few notes myself.
Now, it plays better than it ever did! But by goodness, it’s not a pretty flute! Shaped like a banana (needs a reajustment of the barell), different head, bits cut off here and there.

Adding keys is a little different though, and I can understand maker’s being insulted by another maker adding keys. However, as long as makers are making incomplete versions of Rudall Rose / Pratten etc…flutes (by that I mean less than 8 keys), and have long waiting lists, that keep them from finishing the instruments, then there are always going to be people who are looking for a solution. It’s like having a violin with 3 strings! I think I’ve probably been in the same position myself, at least thought about it - although never actually gone through with adding keys to a keyless flute.

Moral of the story - if everyone just ordered and made complete instruments, everyone would be happy!!
A little controversial? How very dare you! ha ha :wink:

Seriously though, taking my tongue out of my cheek for second - great discussion :slight_smile:

17

As far as I (and I think most other makers) am concerned it’s a matter of courtesy. If the maker is still alive they should be consulted first.
Players seem to see it in a more practical sense, but I would be interested to know if any makers fall in with the “once you’ve paid for it do what you want with it” school of thought.

18

Dominic I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Agreed.

19

I think I’d fit that position. I’m strongly of the view that players need the flute that works for them (which is why I make so many models). So, for example, if a customer found that one of my key shapes didn’t quite work for them, and they knew another maker who could rework it to their satisfaction, I’d have no problem with that. And if they wanted one of my flutes but with post-mount keys (which I rarely do), I’d have no problem with another maker adding the keys. I’d be happy to suggest to them where I’d drill the tone holes and how big, but if they felt they knew better, then that’s up to the owner to decide.

Perhaps, when you get to my age, these things don’t matter so much.

“You are old, Father William,” the young man said,
“And your hair has become very white;
And yet you incessantly stand on your head—
Do you think, at your age, it is right?”

“In my youth,” Father William replied to his son,
“I feared it might injure the brain;
But now that I’m perfectly sure I have none,
Why, I do it again and again.”

Terry

20

I think the main issue is in re-sale, and the honesty (or lack of honesty) involved when describing/selling the flute. Assuming no damage was done, if told up front, the buyer knows that he/she has bought a bit of a hybrid (although more Olwell than not, IMO) That hybrid would undoubtedly sell well on Ebay, C&F, etc. - and no harm done, if honest about the modifications, much like antiques sold with heads/embouchures remade or recut by modern makers. More often than than not these were improvements, but you can’t call them completely original, since they’re not - you don’t sell a '62 Fender Strat with modern pickups and whammy bar and call it original, even if it might play or sound better than the classic. Moreover, you’ve depreciated it, a bit - an Olwell keyed by Olwell will/should be worth more than one keyed by someone else (unless someone is willing to pay the same or more for it…), so, again - the issue is in resale honesty. If the owner never sells the flute, the point becomes moot, and they may have a fantastic, if hybrid, flute to play.