Is there a role for the amateur session enthusiast?

Michael:

I suspect I’m representative of the sort of player that frustrates your development of your session. I have been taking whistle lessons for three and a half years, along with 6 other folks. I probably play well enough to get by in a slow session, but have not made it to one yet. Of the 7 of us in the whistle class, only 2 have any interest in playing sessions.

The biggest barrier for me (aside from anxiety) is simply time and travel. We don’t live in small villages. There are 2 slow sessions available to me - either would come after a 3 1/2 hr commute and 9 hr work day, and add 100 miles.

I am learning concertina with Boston CCE. It’s a great experience (although it takes 3-4 hrs and another 100 miles on a Saturday morning) They have a bi-weekly session in a fraternal club on Sunday afternoon. probably perfect for me, but would be another 3-4 hrs and 100 miles. You may be seeing a trend here…

BTW minors can be in bars in MA if they (the bar) serves food.

So has anyone ever relocated to be closer to a session.

In Missouri and Kansas, we tend to have more bar and grills than just plain bars, so minors are allowed in (the bar and grills that is). Our session has moved around a lot (bookstore, coffee shop, bar and grill - more bar than grill and now at a bar and grill that is more grill than bar). Attendance was at an all time low over the holiday weekend - just 5 of us, we probably average 10-12 players a session, and sometimes it’s up to 15 or 16.

Michael - I do think there is a place for session players outside of Ireland to keep sessions and the music alive. I’m not going to stop playing, and I’m constantly referring interested musicians to our sessions and to other local players. If I were in a town without any strong trad players, I’d try to start a session.

However, there is a true advantage to having musicians steeped in the tradition and music around. We’re lucky to have a very good core of Irish musicians, but only one of them, Turloch Boylan, is actually Irish. Another, Dave Agee is a good enough player Turloch has him teaching ITM fiddle at Turloch’s music school, and the third, Mike Dugger, has played professionally for years and plays with Turloch in several bands. This trio of talented musicians are the ones I listen to extensively to really understand how to play tunes. I’m not good yet, but I’m working on it and probably will be for years.

Eric

I’m flabbergated that in Boston, surely the most proud-to-be-Irish of all cities in the USA, there isn’t more access to traditional Irish music.

I’ve PM’d you the link… (I don’t want to ‘feed the madness’ by directing traffic for that discussion to that thread, where it doesn’t belong, and away from this more appropriate location.)

Boston is rich in Irish-American tradition. I’d be willing to bet that there are many more highland players than uilleann players there and that most folks would associate highland pipes and kilts with Ireland rather than Scotland.

Okay, I’ve been pondering this for a bit. Not quite fully getting how you are demarcating this divide in the above quote, I’m sort of getting “those born to the tradition” to mean “keepers of the faith”, but this seems like a mistake on my part. After all, there are plenty among the amateur enthusiasts who are among the “keepers”, and plenty of nonnative players who are demonstrably excellent and are sought out by good native players for collaboration in performance and recording projects. Some are legitimately born to the tradition outside of Ireland, and some have come to be exponents from a starting-point outside of the tradition. I’ll try to work around this, though.

Not to be glib, but I think the common ground is the music itself (and I mean this in the broadest sense, not just the plunking out of notes to get a tune’s bones out). There’s nothing else to start from, as I see it.

From there it remains to be seen how it pans out in the playing to affect the lay of the land, and, too, the fact of personality differences factors in. Some social possibilities just don’t “click” no matter how excellent the abilities and understanding, and common the roots, of all parties concerned. What I’m getting at is that the music being inevitably at some point a social venture (and, so, a comparative one musically and behaviorally and chemistry-wise; after all, that’s what we humans do), that’s where common ground works, or becomes irrelevant.

Just going by the example of some of our local sessions, all I can say is that some born to the tradition have said, unsolicited, that they like them, and others haven’t said much, so it’s hard to say. I haven’t heard anyone slagging on the basis of poor musicianship but in one case, and that was from a known sour-grapes-when-at-his-worst sort. So, it may well be that everyone else is just being polite. But: they keep coming back when they’re around, so what’s the answer, here? I think it’s the music, and the honest efforts of the locals to do their best at keeping the tradition a living, close-to-the-bone thing. Kind of hard not to when so many are able to travel to the source often enough for study’s sake, and that the Irish themselves offer their time up to instruct others. Then, too, one shows up in hopes of meeting up with those one has good rapport with. But the music is the glue.

In a nutshell, IMO any non-common ground lies outside the music itself. I’ll have to think more on this, though.

(Edit) Re: the title of the thread, which to my mind is a somewhat different tack from the opening line quoted above: I suppose it depends on who’s talking. Considering that the Irish Diaspora has arguably fulfilled one of its hoped-for roles of preserving at least some aspect cultural identity, and that the traditional music is now very much alive and well again on its native soil, I suppose our role is now marginal at best. So what. I’m enjoying myself.

Nanohedron, I agree. Once the focus shifts from the music to the individual, everything falls apart. I’ve often played lovely music with people I couldn’t stand to have a conversation with, my tagline really should be “Just shut up and play.”

I wish lovely music alone were enough to sustain a session scene, hasn’t been enough in my experience. If people don’t have a good time or have to deal with inflated egos or insensitive people in the conversation between the tunes, they stop showing up. I recently had to ask a fiddler to stop coming to our session because he would say things to others in a way that left them feeling insulted rather than supported. Example, asking other players “how long have you been playing” is a reasonable question, but “you haven’t been playing very long, have you?” isn’t.

Maybe I should add role playing videos to the site… Something like the videos they show in airplanes before takeoff, but for basic session etiquette and how to be nice to each other. :slight_smile:

…or you could counter bad behavior with things like, “You were dropped on your head as an infant, weren’t you.”

Well, one has the comfort of one’s fantasies. :wink:

Too bad you had to bar the fiddler you mentioned, but sometimes there’s no other good choice.

I don’t think it has to. My crowd, like any human group, are always going to deal sooner or later with petty clashes (rare in the extreme, I’m grateful to report, so we haven’t had to out-and-out ban anyone yet), and we generally know who’s likely to be at the heart of them. I’m no shining example, myself, but I try. But damage control isn’t too difficult - around here, anyway - so long as people know they have social support despite a bad momentary experience. So, people still show up despite the presence of some, and just seat themselves accordingly.

There’s lots of wonderful Irish music and one or more sessions every night of the week within a couple of hours driving time. And many, many talented players. In fact that’s the problem for beginners - too many good musicians result in high quality playing at the local seessions. There’s a 2 hr slow session in Boston on Monday nights and a 1 hour slow session on Cape Cod on Wednesday nights. Also the CCE session described above.

A couple of years ago, my whistle teacher and her husband (guitar/singer from Dublin) organized a session at a small pub/restaurant in a suburban town. It was on Monday nights and started in mid-January. She expected it to be a perfect place for her students to come and learn to play with a few others. The problem was that from the first day there were 20 or more players from all over greater Boston. Great playing, good food, busiest night of the week for the restaurant etc, but not the best place for beginners.

That is an excellent idea, especially since you are already trying to attract people to your web site for different instruments anyways. A special section on session etiquette and social mores would be a welcome addition, I think.

Its surprising how few people are prepared to deal constructively with each other in a social setting. They have to be taught, e.g. instead of banning your fiddler friend, educate them. If they choose to continue to insult and denigrate after education, then ban them. You could cover the whole social interaction scene as well as special situations that apply only to sessions.

djm

As an example of the power of introduction of the genre, we had a guy stop in this last session, stay the whole time, finally join the circle near the end to ask questions (some seemingly silly to anyone ‘in the know’, some erudite, and taking some serious consideration to answer, all genuine), offer some suggestions (some seemingly silly to anyone 'in the know) and generally get his mind expanded on a type of music he’d never really gotten to know, or thought to try to play. Now, he is interested and planning on coming back to join in and learn what he can from us, particularly our main guitarist.

Now an example of the not so blind leading the more blind…

That ‘main guitarist’, who is the dyed-in-the-wool rocker I mentioned earlier, decided a while ago that he wants to learn to play this music more properly. He attended the St. Louis Tionól this last month for the first time and is hooked. He is busily practicing what he learned there, and eagerly sharing it at our sessions, including helping folks go from being ‘chunk, cachunk, cachunkers’ to actually ‘getting’ the rythyms for jigs, reels, hornpipes etc. He is not an expert, but he is the expert at this point in time in this group. His level of play is way above the others on that instrument in that group, and as he is growing… all of the others in the group are growing too, at their own paces… some quickly, some not so much … but all are gaining from his quest for knowledge and his willingness to share what he knows. He loves being ‘top dog’ to some extent, especially being appreciated for what he can do, but he knows full well he isn’t an expert in ITM.

So, while some would condemn him for his pride, or for his lack of expertise, others revere him for his ‘guitar-god’ abilities and his humbleness. Widely divergent perceptions of the same guy, the same talents, the same knowledge, the same actions.

Glass half-empty v.s. glass half-full type of stuff.

Those who see something to gain will pay attention. Those who don’t won’t. Either way, he is doing what he finds valuable and enjoyable, and contributing to the whole, and, in my opinion, in a big way.

Not knowing the circumstances, maybe it’s possible that the backfiring may have been in how it was presented. If word’s out that a session (unspecified) is going on, it’s pretty much anyone’s game; to forestall that very possibility, we recently instituted a learners’ session designated as such, with the particular goal in mind of promoting ear-learning. So far, no problem. True, it’s less about learning to play with others in the usual sense of the full-swing session, but the goal is being met, and they are learning to play with others anyway when I think about it. What’s really cool is that they’re starting to help each other out.

Learners still attend the regular sessions, but they understand that much of the time they’ll be listening until they get the tunes. Still, they’ll start up pet sets when there’s a lull, and we play right along. Many of these are young players, and we don’t want to discourage them. Where would the music be when we old farts die off, otherwise?

He did get a warning and did exactly the same thing again, so out he went. When I gave him the bad news, he asked me exactly what he had done. We went outside the pub and I told him in detail who he had upset, how he had upset them, and various other gross violations of session rules and basic etiquette.

I really hate having to do that, but it comes with the job I guess, and I really dread having to do it again in the future should a similar situation come up. I’ve only had to ask three or four people to leave in the 4 years or so we’ve had the session running, each time it was an incredibly unpleasant thing to do.

If you’re running a session, then unfortunately you do have the responsibility to make such decisions.

I have to say I’m glad I don’t have any such responsibilities. If something had to be dealt with, I suppose I’d recruit an ad hoc posse and gang up on the offensive one. Strength in numbers, and diffusion of blame. :wink:

I’m relieved there’s still a place for me Annie. :laughing:



edit:
pppfffffffftttttttt! (why does dash-it-all-without-hyphens translate to shit?) Nano! I had not read through the thread yet!

Alas, that can backfire as well. Trust me. In fact, it can lead to sharper focus of blame and the sudden disappearance of all supporting parties and a very awkward situation for some time after. :blush:

Enquiring minds want to know. Just in a general, functional way, of course.

Ah. I see you’ve added more…but I’m curious how the backfire played out. I think I get a general idea, though, in a vague sort of way.

:laughing: :laughing:

We had a situation arise that put the whole group in an uncomfortable position, made it very difficult for one member to attend, then two, and the originators of the group decided that something needed to be done, especially considering that some of the stuff was being published on the internet in relation to the group’s website… it was not a happy situation… so the decision was made to ask the offending party to cease and desist, nicely, and when said party decided not to oblige, we asked them not to return until they were able to leave the problem outside the session group. I, being one of the founding (almost) members, was in on the decision, and being the communications director by default, and the one person willing to actually put into words what was going on (imagine that! :laughing: ) became the focus not just of that person’s rath, but then of several members of the group who had said privately that they agreed with the action, but were nowhere to be found after the fact… I don’t like wearing a target, myself, but I know when not to let someone else’s blame tear me down, so I weathered it.

The person has since gotten past that event and most of those involved have as well, though we lost one member (the originially offended one, unfortunately). Things are pretty much OK between us all now, and I am still in contact with the absent one. We did suffer a breech of trust though, and regretably, I seem to be seen as that breech, though I certainly see it otherwise. Just beware, standing up, even though you know that most believe the same way, makes you an easy target, and many people will turn tail and run rather than risk being seen standing up with you… or worse, pretend they are suprised by what you are doing, even though they said ‘do it’.

It was not something I ever care to have to do again, as I don’t like having folks mad at me, but I won’t stand back and let anyone torpoedo the ship while I’m on watch … (reminder to self… steal those shinguards back from Az… just in case)

Thanks, Annie. It’s pretty much how I expanded on the hint. Lesson learned: ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances. :slight_smile: