Is it just me?

Whistle
1

Here’s an exchange I had with a reader after yesterdays’ issue. I’m not upset about it–I just thought it might generate some interesting discussion.

Hi Dale

Great website but I’m a little too concerned that it is very American. “Why not” you might say “after all we invented the Internet you whinging limey”

Well we invented the Whistle and music is an international language. I for one would like to see a lot less Jingoistic flag US waving on the C&F site and a more international feel.

If you can’t manage this then please unsubscribe me.

Kind regards

Your friend in Europe

mark

My response:

Mark,

Oh. I would never refer you as a whinging limey.

I’m more than a little surprised to be accused of “Jingoistic flag-waving.” In fact, as of this hour, three subscribers (my own countrymen!) have angrily unsubscribed because of my “attack” on President Bush in the issue you got in the last 12 hours and my “pattern of anti-Americanism” as one fellow from New Jersey put it.

I’m happy to unsubscribe you. I’m pretty sure I can’t manage the international feel you request.

Best wishes,

Dale

Hi Dale

You are missing the point Dale. The fact is politics, left or right is
irrelevant here.

You have angered your own countrymen because of your views which put you on one side or other of the political fence and lost valuable potential
contributors to the C&F site. This is a loss to me as well, can’t you see?

\

I’m pretty sure I can’t manage the international feel you request

Unfortunately this reinforces my opinion that sadly many Americans have a very narrow world view. I suppose living as I do in Europe I get exposed to so much wider cultural field.

I belive that music has the power to unite cultures like no other form of
human endeavour and bringing political and religious issues into your
website spoils and undermines that.

No I’m not angrily unsubscribing Dale, I’m just unsubscribing and I feel
very sad that otherwise C&F is a WORLD-CLASS site for all things whistle, an instrument found in so many cultures, but is closed to many because you can’t help pinning your political and religious views to it. please
unsubscribe me.

I wish you all the best for the future

Mark

2

i’d just forget about it Dale, where just whistlers, not politicians. there an exchange of emotions on this board, wich is quiet normal. but for some people, politics is there passion.

3

I do have to mention something else, too–Boxing Day is December 26 in Canada. It is the day after Christmas. They call it ‘Boxing Day’ because people box up gifts and return them on that day—at least that is what my Canadian friends tell me. Then again, it could be the Labatt’s talking! I think Canadian Independence Day is July 1–I could be wrong on that.

(sigh) Reminds me of the time I took a limo ride with some people at a wedding and there was a tv screen and I (jokingly) said to the driver..“Hey, do you get cable?” and he rolls his eyes and says, “C’mon, Buddy, it would be pretty hard dragging that long cable all over town” and I say, “I WAS KIDDING!!”

Dale

4

Dale, I would give your unsubscriber a lot more credit if he had offered ways to make the board more international and less NA oriented.

But aside from a few snide comments (very few)…he was remarkably polite in his dissatisfaction.

While some form of fipple blown instrument is present in nearly every culture in the world, this website is not obliged in anyway to cater to everyone. It is owned, maintained and paid for (as far as I can tell) by North Americans. It is frequented primarily by English speaking people, a majority of which are interested in Irish traditional music.

Meanwhile, we’ve been graced with the presence of people from the Far East, Middle East, Pacifica, Europe…and I’m sure that there’s been at least one or two from Africa and SA (Dale, I think you’re missing out on Antarctica!), and we’ve discussed everything from kwela to the blues.

I’ve personally enjoyed musical websites that were based in Europe, the Middle East and Far East, even if I couldn’t read them in their native language. It would never occur to me to complain that they didn’t broaden their scope to include the rest of the world.

5

I think Mark has missed an important point. You can not make the board one thing or another. You can express your views just like I can. We all make the board what it is.

Does he think Americans are not going to wave the flag on the 4th of July? Most of what I read here has to do with Irish Traditional music and those who play it. It just happens that most of the people reside in the USA or Canada but many of our best contributers are from other countries.

Is expressing our desire to pray for someone a bad thing? I have heard many things spoken of here that are not part of my lifestyle but each person has a right to there own way of life. Life is to short to sweat the small stuff.
Keep whistling,
Ron

6

i would have taken the subway dale, the drivers are less boring, an they have cable!!

7

Dale,
Someone’s going to dislike it no matter what you do. Even when you’re being even-handed the chances are 50-50 that you will be offending someone at any given time. Humor is why I stay at ChiffandFipple. Perhaps we could invite (again) the non-North American members of the list to send in their anti-American jokes…just to see if we do have a sense of humor.
Mike

8

I changed my mind about this message. I meant what I said, but as a smart fellow pointed out: In here I’m a whistler. I really don’t want do argue about politics with you guy’s.

9

I disagree with burnsbyrne idea for other nationalities to send in anti-american jokes. Eventually, that will lead Americans to send in Italian jokes, Polish jokes, et all… That will lead to some hard feelings all the way around. If people find something offensive to them on this board, as I do with some of the postings on this thread, then simply ignore the thread in the future.

Just my two cents and now I will take my own advice and not follow this thread any longer.

Truly best wishes to all, :slight_smile:

Frank

10

I changed my mind about this message. I meant what I said, but as a smart fellow pointed out: In here I’m a whistler. I really don’t want do argue about politics with you guy’s.

11

I have a feeling that much of the motivation Dale has to keep slogging through the drudgeries of running a website comes from the opportunity to have a little fun. And when you own the place, you can have that fun anyway you like.

I, for one, look forward to the humor. Or humour for our non-American friends. If it wasn’t for the humor, I’d probably never read the darn thing.

(Disclaimer: this is not a function of my politics, but of my funnybone).

12

Dale,

I’ve never known you to say an unkind word about anyone, no matter what their belief, country of origin, or views about the recorder.

On the contrary, you are one of the consistently nicest people I’ve encountered, and when you do poke fun at someone, you do it in only the gentlest ways.

I wouldn’t worry about it. Lots of folks have a chip on their shoulder these days concerning many different subjects. As pointed out already, you won’t please all of them no matter what you do.

–James

13

Well said, James. This is a great place, Dale. Don’t let that exchange bother you.

-Paul

14

Gee Dale; I don’t agree with some of the thing you write. But, upon re-reading, I sometimes don’t agree with many things I have written. In my "late afternoon years’ I tend to choose not to read some articles or posts that look like they might make my blood pressure rise or cause me to foam at the mouth. That practice has its cost too. I passed up the recent o/t post “Weapons of Mass Destruction” several times and almost missed the most hilarious entry of this young month. If I only participated in things I agreed with I probably wouldn’t have any thing to read or do and no one to discuss it with.

After 20 years of military duties mostly served outside the US, I do tend to agree with the rest of the world that ‘Americans’ often tend to of the loutish, ugly variety at home and abroad. Other nationalities tend to display their own quirks and foibles too. That hasn’t dimmed my dreams of continued travel outside my backward village. If others are so worldly and broad thinking that they can’t accept that some of us may differ in views, opinions, and tastes; I just add them to my prayer list.

I have also observed during my travels that we odd Americans are the best, most skilled, voluntary flag wavers on the globe. Many persons that I have shared the local foods and drinks with could not understand what we are so proud of and I’ve found it’s beyond my abilities to explain. I couldn’t consider cancellation, C&F claims too big a part of my life. Continue doing your thing!

15

Isn’t that one of the great things about being American…Freedom of speech,the right to dissent,etc,etc. Fact is this is a site generated in the USA…Yes music is the international language,so what? chill out… I mean, I get tired of everybody bashing the US,then basking in the support we give the rest of the world,but what’s that got to do with whistles anyway??
Yes there have been things in the newsletter I did agree with,so what? This is still the best music site on the net…

16

Dale,

First of all, yes, I do get mildly annoyed by the stabs at President Bush. We all know you’re not his greatest fan. I think he’s doing a pretty good job under the circumstances.

Whew, thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

Now, having said that, I don’t understand why it seems to bother some people that Americans aren’t ashamed of being Americans. (I’m not talking about ignorant American tourists here; most of us aren’t like that) I don’t think there’s a thing in the world wrong with an American acting, talking, and thinking like an American. Some people seem to think that diversity is a great thing…as long as we all think exactly the same way. Does diversity mean that everyone has to embrace every culture? Or does it mean that we should all be who we are and do our best to accept others?

So my advice is do your thing, your way. I would prefer that you give Mr. Bush a break. I would prefer that people from other countries refrain from screaming “Brainwashing!” just because I happen to like the guy. But I also have to realize that not everyone is quite as enlightened as I am. :smiley: Your European friend didn’t like the site so he unsubscribed, very politely. No big deal in my book. It just sounds like the way things are supposed to work.

Tom

17

Was this supposed to be a joke or something?

If I were you I’d just tell him that it’s your website and if he doesn’t like it too dang bad, he can go stuff it.

18

There’s a more important question here: You haven’t offended me much, Dale, and I’ve only considered unsubscribing a couple of times, so WHY DON’T I RECEIVE THE NEWLETTER?!? I not only didn’t know there was a “yesterday’s” issue, I didn’t know there was a June issue. Do only the people who are easily offended get them? I can be just as easily offended as the next person, just ask the chatters.
Please unsubscribe me from the unsubscribed list and subscribe me to the subscriber’s list.
Susan

19

I think Americans are great folks, in general.
We’re pragmatic, friendly, kindly, egalitarian, hopeful
independent and we’re not dragging around hundreds of years
of grievances. Generally being a mall crawling
gum chewing American beats the culture
that preceded, in my opinion–having escaped
an ethnic culture myself by dissappearing into the
wilds of America. We don’t go round muttering
‘Those Bosnians…we’ll get even for what
they did to us in 1639.’

The dark side to that is that we’re violent–
classes and castes keep people apart and
make for peace. Friendly people get into more
trouble. In India I often saw situations
that would have erupted into violence
in the USA that didn’t there because the people
didn’t want to touch each other for caste
reasons.

Also we’re extraordinarily ignorant about the
rest of the world, many of us, living on this
vast, wealthy island, with an educational
system that routinely graduates illiterates
from university.

Abroad we’re fine and folks like us well enough,
in my experience. We pay our bills, we’re freindly,
we’re interested and open minded. We don’t come across as
arrogant (as do quite a few tourists from other
countries).

In Haupitale in Ceylon I tried to get a room in
a guest house. Krishna, the young fellow who ran it,
asked for five times the normal rate. I said I would
look elsewhere and he cried: ‘Stop, don’t go.
I didn’t realize you are Amercian. I thought you
were German. They pay ANYTHING’ You can tell
where the German tourists go in Asia, because
the children have become beggars.

On the other hand I have had close friends
in Asia, with whom I traveled, who were German.
Klaus, whom I met in Kabul–we hitchhiked around
India together.

There is, I think, little comprehension in Europe of
the USA. The chief reason, as far as I can tell,
is that people have few facts. But also there
is an animus–people feel like we’re silly
rude yet puritanical children, who need
instruction from their more sophisticated
and worldly elders. During the impeachment
my German aunt in Munich explained to me:
‘What matters is that the leader gets the
economic job done! The rest is details!’
And she thumped the table.

‘Thank you for your politcal guidance,’
I almost responded. ‘We’ve learned so
much from you already!’

But that doesn’t mean that none of the
European objections to our foreign policy
are correct.

The bottom line is that a rich and powerful nation
is going to be resented, no matter what it does.
Simple envy will see to that, and a feeling
of inferiority (especially in the third world).
Human beings are pretty simple,
finally. That means that if we succeed
we will be resented–e.g. for winning
the Cold War.

Of course our own stupidity and mistakes
have a lot to do with it. Still,
when you consider the awesome power
we wield, and our relative newness,
we haven’t done so badly. Consider
the Soviets, the Chinese, the Third
Reich…It could be much, much worse.

As a descendant of one of the
‘huddled masses yearning to breathe free,’
I thank my lucky stars for the New World.
It’s surprising to find so many promises kept.

As to Bush-bashing, etc. well,
the party in power should take it on
the chin, shouldn’t it? What folks
sometimes object to is the self-congratulatory
moral and intellectual elitism of some
anti-Republican stabs. But I don’t care,
as long as we keep the White House.

So I think the board is doing OK,
an international community that’s
really a community will have
some international tensions in
a time of international disagreement.
And some intranational disagreements.

It could all be more peaceful if we
were a whistle club, or if–better still-
we had a Czar. I propose Bloomfield. Best to all

20

Frank,
I am surprised by your displeasure. One of the early posters to this thread stated that he was tired of the USA-centered jokes. He implied that Americans would not laugh at jokes aimed at them. I thought I was simply suggesting the we test the theory by hearing some good political humor from Europe. I was not intending to start a flame war. In fact, I am very surprised that anyone took offence. If I have offended, I apologize.
Mike