I’m a pro classical flutist, although a bit out of shape in recent years due to caring for my small children. Playing Irish music has been a joy for me during this season, since it doesn’t require long practice sessions and agonizing over every detail of sound. I am however running into an intonation issue that I haven’t been able to solve.
I play a Casey Burns folk flute, the small-handed version, and I’m consistently sharp. I tend to lean sharp on classical flute too, but I’m able to get it under control on a modern flute. Meanwhile, my Irish flute is pulled waaaay out (making C# crazy flat), I’m lipping everything down, dropping my jaw - yet I still am higher than my session colleagues. The notes E and B are the biggest problems. I tried putting a bit of beeswax in those toneholes, but it deadened the sound too much. I haven’t messed with the head plug yet, mainly because I worry I’ll screw it up!
People seem to love these flutes, so I’m inclined to think it’s a “me” problem. Has anyone else run into this? Is it a classical thing? Would investing in a flute with a tuning slide help at all?
Lots of players on this forum with more experience than I have with a variety of makers, but I did own a Casey Burns folk flute that someone traded to me many years ago. And I, too, found that the intonation was tricky. Like yourself, it only played in pitch with the joint pulled pretty far out, and this seemed to cause other problems. He uses a pretty stout tenon on those, so pulling it way out created a substantial cavity in the bore, which was possibly contributing to the issues. But when I pulled the joint out to get the D note in tune, it messed with the intonation on the rest of the flute noticeably. I question how fixable any of this is, and if you really are loving playing Irish flute you might consider upgrading. If you are on a budget you’ll get a lot of decent suggestions here–there are some excellent flutes out there for reachable prices.
Yes, it is a “you” problem, or more specifically a “your embouchure” problem. And I’m not being critical here. This is actually a very common problem with people coming from a classical/Boehm flute playing background. It all has to do with the angle at which you blow and how much coverage of the embouchure you employ.
Boehm flute players are typically trained to blow across the embouchure hole in such a way that the embouchure hole is not covered or shaded. In contrast, the typical way to play Irish flute involves directing the airflow more downward and shading the embouchure hole more. This allows you to achieve a different mix of harmonics, which people deem to be more traditional/authentic sounding, but it also lowers the pitch of the instrument due to the shading of the embouchure.
What this means is that to play a given pitch you don’t need the tuning slide to be extended as far, which sharpens the upper notes (B, C# etc) more than the lower ones, because the tuning slide has an uneven effect on the tuning of the flute’s notes (it changes the acoustic length of the bore proportionately more for upper notes than lower ones).
So you’re Burns flute has likely been made and tuned under the assumption that the Irish flute embouchure approach will be used to play it.
There is another issue going on with the C# tuning though, and that is that makers have to compromise the tuning of C# (all fingers off) and Cnatural (fingered oxx ooo), both of which are using that top tone hole to vent. The general consensus is that it is better to have the C# a bit flat in order to get the Cnat in tune and speaking better.
So C# is often a bit flat on Irish flutes, but your classically trained embouchure approach is causing you to have to extend the tuning slide a lot, which flattens C# further, and more than it flattens any other note on the flute.
Thanks Paddler! I suspected it was something like this, although I’ve been trying my best to aim my air down into the flute as much as possible instead of out and across like I do on Boehm. I’ll keep experimenting.
To the general discussion: Do any Casey Burns folk flute experts out there know the correct cork placement to see so Abbythefluter can check if this is still were it is supposed to be? And for you Abbythefluter, it may just be a matter of taking some time with it. Playing with recordings you know are in tune and matching with micro adjustments of your embouchure and breath control will help. I’ve been playing for a very very long time and still am aware that I still need to do this, especially when playing with fiddles who seem to have their own sense of where A=440 and are pretty damn sure. 80-90% of the time they are right inf you are playing with hobbiests. I have an astoundingly great flute. But even with that and my years of experience, there are some notes I really need to lip up, and change my breath pressure etc. It’s a journey I hope you enjoy.
Casey sets his corks further back than most people recommend. After a few years I moved mine to a more conventional tuning-slide diameter distance back and got easier control over the top half of the second octave. So I left it there.
Seems I’m a flat player. I always had the slide closed so when I had keys added Casey took 3mm off the head but I rarely use that after the first couple of tunes.
That said I still have a folk-flute ‘as delivered’ and enjoy playing it for a change.
I sometimes play with Boehm players who say they like the tone of my flute. It could be they are finding something nice to say I suppose. I assume any tuning issues are me and matching them certainly concentrates the mind.
I dunno, every time I’ve tried a Casey Burns flute, I’ve found the intonation very weird, and not at all like most Irish flutes. Granted, I never sat down with one for a while and really figured it out, and maybe my opinion would change if I did.
But anyway, I wouldn’t necessarily conclude that it’s the player and not the flute. At the very least, it could be a combination of the two.
Is it? Because my wife plays silver flute, and when she tries to play my Irish flute, it plays flat, not sharp, particularly on the lower end. I was always under the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that this is the more common issue for silver flute players.
Yes, of course, there is always the possibility that the flute is defective in some way. But the fact that the OP stated that they are a pro classical flutist, and a sharp blowing one at that, would lead me to expect them to experience exactly the kind of tuning anomalies they outlined, for most Irish flutes.
But I think the key point here is that when a flute is made, the maker has to have some anticipated blowing style in mind. The maker places the tone holes such that the flute is in tune with itself for this blowing style. And all this typically happens way before the ultimate player is known.
Since different players will inevitably blow sharp or flat of the maker’s anticipated target, the tuning slide will need to be extended or pushed in, and the flute will no longer be in tune with itself, at least not as the maker intended.
So, is it right to blame the maker or the player? You could make a reasonable sounding argument for either or both. But the reality is that flutes are instruments that are generally not inherently in or out of tune. They must always be played in tune. What the player has to do to accomplish this varies from one instrument to the next and from one player to the next. This is one of the reasons why some flutes are better suited to some players than others.
Anyway, I think it would make sense for the OP to try a few other Irish flutes to see if they experience similar behavior. I also think it would be worth experimenting a bit with different embouchure approaches, not only to try to address intonation issues, but also to search for that distinctive reedy Irish flute tone, because the two might come together.
Another thing that might be worth doing to address the question of whether the tuning is just wonky on this flute, would be to just ignore the issue of overall pitch for a moment, and see if you can find a tuning slide position in which the flute is at least in tune with itself. This is easy to do if you have a tuner that allows you to set the reference pitch (say to something sharper than A=440 hz).
The aspect I’d be most focused on in this is the sharp E note. If that is still overall sharper than the flute’s other notes (at whatever reference pitch the flute is best in tune with itself), then that is not an easy problem to fix, because the hole that vents E on these flutes is already extremely small, making that note veiled already. Any attempt to reduce it further or tape over it generally won’t work.
The outcome of all this is that you may find that the flute is in tune with itself, but you blow it too sharp. In this case, there is a chance that changing embouchure might help, but you may also just decide that this flute isn’t a good fit for you. Alternatively, if you find that the flute just isn’t in tune with itself, and that the E is just too sharp, then it certainly won’t work for you and you should look for something else.
