I’d have to disagree with you Tom, I don’t think the issue of RH % is subjective - my experience leads me to belive that flutes need to be kept within a certain range of humidity that has a correlation to what humidity the flute wood was seasoned to: For example, An Irish or English made flute is going to be much more likely to crack at 30% humidity than a flute made from wood that has been seasoned in most parts of the US.
I’d store instruments made in the US at around 55%-60% RH, and anything made in a high humidity climate at 65%-75%.
And yeah, Boxwood seems more finicky - I had (warping) problems with an English made boxwood instrument at anything below about 60%.
I just found the correspondence I had from Brad; his English-made boxwood flute would go out of round at below 50% RH.
I think we’re all somewhat off-base when it comes to comparing the climates of Ireland and the UK with North American climates. We completely discount the fact that in the winter, anything indoors in Ireland or London or Cape Hatteras will have very low humidity; nearly everyone lives with some kind of heating, and whole-house humidification systems aren’t ubiquitous. The few homes I’ve been in in Britain had radiator heat, and that sucks the humidity out of the air. Are most workshops without climate control, or if they do have it, do they watch the humidity like hawks?
When I bought my first keyed flute, a Cotter, I remember that Eamonn looked up climate data for Houston and decided that he needed to keep my flute in the kitchen next to soups and boiling water, so that it would get used to the higher humidity we have. He figured, I think, that our high humidity coupled with a low need for heating would mean that the RH indoors for me would be a lot higher than his. (Note that I was in Houston at that time, not Toronto.)
I wonder if the problems folks seem to have with timber stems from bad seasoning. I mean, I know everyone wants an instrument right now, but doesn’t it take years for the moisture in a piece of timber to equilibrate with the ambient conditions? Trees are pretty wet, you know. It wouldn’t surprise me if it actually took months of sitting around, drilled out, for timber to dry enough for an instrument to be stable. Months or years.
What form do instrument makers keep their timber in? Billets? Drilled billets?
You are assuming that most of these flute makers season their wood either indoors (rather than out in a separate shop or storage shed), and in the heated portion of the house (of course I am assuming the opposite, which is not necessarily correct either). I’m also not convinced that the heated areas will be so low in humidity - something more associated with central heat/air…
I have also suggested on occasion that poor seasoning may be an issue, but I’d think that the likes of Cotter, Hamilton, Wilkes, and Murray would have sussed out the seasoning issues long ago.
55% sounds good to me.
Loren you have a good point but realy wood never stops seasoning. When I was building wooden kayaks and sailboats and I was using cuered lumber I always let it climatize for at least a year so that I could work with it in the shop or out on the job with out it checking or swelling or shrinking. Now the boxwood issue kinda scares me seeing as though I have 3 boxwood flutes coming this week and I think the RH around here right now is 20% and I don`t think they will all fit in my humidor.
well, at least in part, the trick seems to be (based on a conversation I had with Patrick Olwell a few weeks back) to avoid extreme humidity shifts. Thus, storing your flute in a tupperare box at high humidity during the winter, for example, would be quite bad because when you pull it out then the wood is subject to drastic dehumidification. This is what i am surmising helped foster some lovely cracks that have appeared on my flute this season. So as a tentative answer to your question, stuart, would be that it depends at least in part on overall humidity in your climate. This also is what i take it accounts for why Olwell suggested what i thought to be a somewhat low humidification level of around 40%. In short, seems like more (humification) is not necessarily better.
I think there is also merit in taking into account what Loren says about where the flute was made/cured. A flute cured in Ireland would have different humidity needs than one cured in, say, west virginia. However, nowadays, i also consult an astrologer and palm reader to get things exactly right. Never can be too cautious, ya know…
Actually Tom, this is my point exactly. Wood will only stop gaining or losing moisture when left for a prolonged period at a given RH. So, if a maker leaves his wood (rough turned and bored) for a period of x months (until he/she is feels comfortable that the wood has seasoned {the humidity has equalized with the outside environment}) and then reams and finish turns the instrument in the same RH environment…well, from then on if that flute is going to maintain it’s current dimensions (not gain or lose significantly more moisture) then it will need to be kept at an RH close to that which the maker seasoned the wood at in the first place. Make sense? This fits with what you are saying.
Loren, I think your response was meant for me and not for Brad.
Radiant heat also dries out the air; just go into a room with radiators and bring your hygrometer. 10% wouldn’t be uncommon. Central air is no different, you’re just blowing a fan across something hot, rather than putting the hot thing in the middle of the room.
And I don’t think that the problems are completely sussed out because I’ve heard of flutes by all those makers with cracks; was it from improper handling, or improper seasoning, or both?
You know, folks, this isn’t too encouraging. Just when I thought that I’d probably end up buying the Casey Burns Folk Flute as my first “real” flute, this thread comes along and makes me start looking at the Dixon, Seery, and M & E again.
I am a bit puzzled at the worries about removing the flute from its properly-humidified case to play, though. Since 1) for most people, you’re adding moisture, and 2) it’s going to be going back inside the case when you’re done. Given how long it takes to season the wood in the first place, how fast can it dry out when you’re playing? Not an opinion here, but an honest question.
Absolutely - extreme humidity shifts = bad! If Olwell says 40% for his flutes, I’ll bet you anything that he seasons to somewhere not terribly far from that point, so for his flutes, 70% RH would be bad news.
Perhaps the real questions should be:
A) What RH was my flute wood “seasoned” to by the maker?
and
B) What percentage variation from that (+ or -) will cause problems?
Question A should be easy enough to get an answer to, question B is much trickier, and I wish we had more scientific data to draw from for the answers.
Right you are Stuart, meant for you, not Brad - duly noted and edited in the post in question, my apologies - I’m whipped from a long day.
As for the cracked flutes…I don’t want to get on any maker’s bad sides, but there seems that the many of the Irish made flutes crack significantly more often over here in the US than they do in their homeland. Again, I wish I had hard numbers to deal with, rather than word of mouth, but it really does seem to be an issue.
That could be, Loren. (About the Irish flutes cracking more here than there.) Oh, and no offense taken or problem with the comments originally addressed to Brad; have YOU ever seen the two of us in the same place?
DCrom . . . well, it’s like this. In my own experience, which is of playing chiefly a cocus instrument, there are a few things to make your timber last. First, follow the maker’s recommendations for breaking in the flute. Usually it involves escalating playing time over a period of days to weeks. Second, if you ever take a hiatus from playing, break the flute back in. Third, oil. I think there’s zero harm in oiling if you use a non-drying oil (almond and olive come to mind). Oil whenever you feel like it. Or more often. Make sure you do it more often in the winter (when indoor humidity drops), and I make it a policy to oil my flutes if I’m going to go away for any length of time (>1week) and am not taking the flute.
And be prudent. Try to keep the instrument from experiencing huge swings in humidity. Meaning, if you live in the frozen North, bundle it up to take it outside. Ziploc (et al.) bags work as vapor barriers.
The flute will be at its most moist when you’re playing. Your breath is, for all intents and purposes, 100% RH. I think the “wet blower” and “dry blower” crap you sometimes hear from highland pipe circles is, well, crap; everyone’s breath has high humidity.
All good instruments require upkeep. Believe me, being a little careful with a timber flute is nothing compared to futzing with reeds. We’ve got it easy. If you want a flute that requires no care, then you’d have to get a delrin one, and in my own limited experience with those instruments you’re not going to find one that’s world-classed. I think even good bamboo flutes perfom better, but that’s my opinion. And they’re cheaper!
Ya know, it would be interesting and informative to try to collect some hard numbers on this sort of thing. Perhaps done in anonymous/objective way such that any particular maker is not singled out for censure (if negative findings were to appear…). Hmmmm, gears turning…
Can I add a few cents to the discussion? They’re actually non-traditional cents so take them for what they’re worth.
First, to add my input to the original question of disassembly. For years, I have had flutes or whistles with metal tuning slides (both brass and silver) that have been often disassembled without any detriment to the instrument. That said, however, I don’t tend to take apart my good Ormiston because the slide is lubricated and if your slide is lubricated my recommendation would be to not take it apart.
Now, regarding humidity.
I don’t humidify. I also have yet to have a flute crack (I have about 6 of them, though only two of them decent hardwood). The RH in my house is currently 28% - though it usually runs a bit higher - 35ish. Summer brings it up to around 45%. I can’t say that everyone else will have the same results. As an aside, I have yet to oil my main flute as well.
Will a crack someday develop? Yeah, maybe. But I’ll have saved myself plenty of time and lost sleep worrying about the RH and more than a few ounces of oil. My rule is that if an instrument can’t survive my playing habits, then it doesn’t deserve to live.
Once in a while, I will swab the bore after playing (with a clean swab), but usually I just fling the spit on the violin player.
My totally unscientific impression (based on years with woodwinds) is that some crack, some don’t. I don’t know if any of it matters.
I oil because I like doing it, and it might help.
I bet that even if you do a search of just Chiff & Fipple’s fora, you’ll find people reporting cracks in lined and unlined headjoints, in “oily” blackwood and “dry” cocus, and from those who’ve oiled religiously and those who shun oiling.
As I’ve mentioned, I think it’s all in how the timber was seasoned, and how slowly the instrument was made, but I don’t know.
Oh, I almost forgot. I bought a flute about 6 years ago in Seattle. I don’t oil it either and could care less about humidity… It did crack when I dropped it, though. Fortunately, a little super glue fixed all that. It’s ceramic
(how’s that for stealing back my sense - I mean cents )
