How the world hears you (not OT)

Whistle
1

Well, yesterday’s mail brought me the video of my trip to Ireland; my Dad had done extensive video-ing and sent me a copy. Of course, he’d gotten me playing my whistle a couple of times. The first time he did it I totally botched the tune (Empty Wallet Waltz) and cringed because I thought, “O great! That’s going to be immortalized on tape!”

Well, when I finally heard it yesterday, it was SO much worse than I even expected. Wow. I sounded TERRIBLE. High notes were all squeaky, rhythm painfully off, bad phrasing & audible breathing. Ugh! Now, we were at Ladies’ View on the Ring of Kerry and it WAS windy and all, and I even knew I hadn’t done well–but it was STILL so much worse than I imagined. This was the first time I’d ever heard myself play.

I panicked because suddenly I thought, my God, am I THAT bad? I’ve been playing at BART stations and in public places. Have I been torturing people with my music??

Of course, it was all made doubly-worse by the fact that I was also SEEING myself on video for the first time in several years, and, like many of us feel, my body is a shocking thing to view objectively. So, I was already sort of horrified that I LOOK so bad, and then to sound bad too!

Luckily, later on the trip, I managed to squeeze out a satifying rendition of Janis Jopin’s Mercedez Benz at some falls on the Erriff river, and my Dad caught THAT and it sounded much better. Different whistle, no wind, easier song, etc. So I recovered some of my former confidence, at least.

However, I have decided I am going to start recording myself–I’ve got a cheapie 15-year old cassette recorder that will work–and listening to it critically and working off that. Hopefully, I will improve!

Anyone else ever experience this sort thing?

2

Use the tape recorder. I used it when I took voice lessons, and I use it sometimes for whistle, guitar, or singing practice, or just to see how my different whistles sound. It will accelerate your learning process. Yes, it can be humbling the first few times–it was with me. But now you can really get better.

3

I also use a tape recorder, though not often, because I sound like a dog who is near death…

I have a theory. We never sound bad to ourselves because we know what we are going to do next, and our minds are always ‘an inch in front of us’, so to speak, but the people listening don’t know what we’re going to do next, and it makes them cringe because to them it’s a series of noises over and over.

4

I record myself occasionally specifically to do self-critiques. It works both ways for me. My ornaments sound MUCH better on tape. Rhythm, phrasing, etc. are kind of a wash - a little better or worse than I thought. The place where I really sound much worse than I generally think is singing. There’s just a certain flatness to my singing voice that bugs me. I’ve sung in public and gotten paid for it; hearing myself on tape leaves me wondering what they were thinking. OTOH, Bob Dylan’s made a mint with a voice no better than mine.

5

I mostly dislike the sound of my singing voice too, even though folks in church and in my jam group ask me to sing solos. I can carry a tune, it’s just that the quality of it grates on my nerves.

6

It works both ways. Often we sound a lot better to others than to ourselves, especially on tape. We know all the mistakes we made, and we’re already cringing in antecipation, but for the listeners, it may sound just fine.

g

7

Just to add some perspective, I think it is also true we almost always sound better to others than we do to ourselves, because we tend to listen for what went wrong.

Take heart! Many people, including me, enjoy listening to players of all levels of experience, even beginners.

Nobody expects a new player to sound like a pro. But that’s not to say they sound bad–just not polished.

–James

P.S. Glauber I didn’t see your post; we make just about the same point.

8

That’s allright, James, we probably posted at the same time. I remember listening to Jean-Pierre Rampal (in my opinion the best flute player ever) and, knowing well the piece he was playing, i could tell a couple of places where he made mistakes. :boggle: Needless to say, most people in the audience were clueless. That’s when i really learned that one of the most important parts of becoming a performer is to learn to live through your mistakes, and keep playing as if they hadn’t happened. Most people won’t notice, unless you cue them.

Also keep in mind that your home recording will never sound as good as a professional recording either.

Having said all that, yes, recording is a good tool, depending on what kind of musician you are, or where you are in your musical career. If you can take it cooly, analyze your misteaks :slight_smile: and improve, that’s great. If it’s going to make you feel bad about your playing, then maybe it’s better not to record.

9

I think if you are Rampal, it’s not called a “mistake” but rather an “interpretation.” :slight_smile:

I agree on Rampal, by the way, he was a phenomenal flute player, and I was saddened when I heard he had passed away. He was a major voice in both the Baroque revival and of the revival of the flute as a solo instrument in classical music.

A related point is that you can play fantastically well but that won’t make you a good performer; conversely, if you play only moderately well but have good performance skills then you will be asked back to play again.

–James

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It’s encouraging that recording & listening will help me get better. I feel like I’ve been sort of stuck at a certain level, so I’m going to see this as an opportunity.

And that was a good point about performances that are live having a quality–because of a performer’s presence, or personality, or whatever–that doesn’t come across on tape or CD. Not that I’m any great showman or anything, but I’m a generally happy bubbly person and so perhaps people haven’t been cringing as much as I suspected…

11

To follow up on some of Glauber’s and James’s remarks. I think we all have to be our own worst critics. If we don’t dwell on your shortcomings, I don’t think we’d improve as quickly. Also, being an Appalachian dulcimer player as well as a whistler, I think that people are very receptive to music that’s unusual. I think if I strummed chords on a guitar and sang Dylan or Joni or CSN that my occasional audiences wouldn’t be as appreciative.

I also loved Rampal on several levels. Mostly because he didn’t buy into the movement of (I think) the 70’s or so to play with a really powerful sound. A metal flute has a plenty big sound even when played delicately, and seeing unamplified chamber music with someone playing in the (for lack of a better word) post-modern style, the flute can be distracting. The other think I liked about him is that he played well in so many different styles and settings – one of my favorite albums is JPR, Emmanuel Axe, YoYo Ma and Isaac Stern (I think those are the four) playing chamber music that was written for amateurs. Not very challenging stuff written by Telemann, Mozart and the like. These guys (all in the same class) really make these simple compositions sing, and I think it takes as much artistry to do that as it does to play some of the more difficult concerti. Maybe it’s just my folkie point of view, though.

12

Also if you are Nanohedron. :smiley:

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Chiming in - I practice at lot at work, whenever I take a break.

We have this nice, empty stairwell with decent acoustics, a window wall, and fire doors to each floor. Sound doesn’t carry out of it, so it’s a wonderful place to practice - the only folks that hear me are those using the stairs instead of the elevator.

Some days I sound good; some days, especially when working on a new piece or refining an older one I sound, to my own ear, lacking. But I’ve noticed no correlation between the compliments I get and how good a day I think I’m having. Now, granted, if I was really, really bad I’d probably get pelted with overripe tomatoes :smiling_imp:, but it does seem that the occasional mistake in an otherwise OK piece is either not noticed or taken as a grace note (uh . . . I meant to do that! yeah!).

My wife and kids are tougher critics - they’ve heard most of these pieces enough times they’re heartily sick of 'em, even if I do get it right. :boggle: :boggle: :boggle:

14

Hi Kar,

Recording yourself playing is very important; doing so on some sort of regular basis will give you a lot more feedback about your rhythm ect ect. Also, if you have a computer you can use the recorder to send samples of your playing to other people for further advice.

I personally think a developing student needs four gadgets on hand at all times, aside from the instrument itself: a sound recorder, a metronome, a journal and a pencil.

Caj

15

That anticipation sometimes causes us to hear what we think we’re playing. For instance, in a blip of very short notes, one might not fire and I’d not realize it until I hear the recording. Off rhythm also seems to be masked by your brain.

On the other hand, it’s an advantage when people don’t know what you’re going to do next, or if a glitch is a glitch or not. At Noel Hill’s last concertina school, a student asked him on the last day: how do you go about deciding where you put ornaments and variation? Is it all done on the fly, or do you practice certain versions with the ornamentation set in stone, or what? Mr. Hill joked, “ornaments? … Oh, those. Those are all mistakes.”

Caj

16

:laughing: Wow! Thanks, Caj! I feel a lot better about my playing now!

In addition to recording, which can be a great help, I also torture my sister. (Isn’t that what siblings are for? :smiley: ) She’s a performing musician, and has been a terrific sounding board in just about every aspect. If you have the opportunity, I highly recommend victimizing someone who understands music from a performance standpoint.

Jan

17

There’s a saying among classical string players that goes something like “Vibrato can cover a wealth of errors.” I’ve often wondered of those players with really deep vibrato just don’t play as cleanly.

18

I’ve actually heard flute students in public school who play everything…even fast 16th note runs…with constant, unwavering vibrato. This vibrato doesn’t change even from their lowest note to their highest.

And I’ve heard at least one band director tell his flutes to play with vibrato in an effort to cover the fact that he couldn’t get his flutes tuned to his satisfaction.

Even before I started playing trad music, I felt a vibrato you couldn’t control was a liability and never an asset, in part because the wide fast vibrato is 90% of why I don’t like opera, even though some of the melodies are some of the most beautiful that have been written.

In the classical world, flutists are expected to play with vibrato, but they are also expected to be able to control it and turn it off at will. Sometimes you will hear jazz flutists play completely without vibrato almost as an effect…it catches the ear because most folks never hear a flute played that way.

–James

19

I always think I sound like crap. Even though others don’t. Even when listening to a recording of myself.
But an interesting thing happended a few months ago. I was cleaning out some old cassette tape boxes and going through, listening to the ones that were unmarked. I found one with pretty good flute and realized it was me. I had recorded on that tape about 20 years ago. For a brief moment I wasn’t blinded by the knowledge that I listened to myself.

20

I’ve been using recording recently for a very specific purpose. I’m playing a number of tunes at my sister’s wedding this Saturday. I already know that some things I do sound find in my ears when I’m playing, but, when I hear them on a recording, I realize they’re less than ideal. So I’ve been recording a tune, listening for what works and what doesn’t, then going back and trying it again with a different idea. It’s made a big difference to me. It’s not as useful as having a knowledgeable player make suggestions, but it’s the next best thing. Like I said, some things, I just can’t hear what they sound like to a listener.

Having said that, my theory is that the people who hear the most of what’s going on in a tune are other musicians. The general audience, especially people who aren’t familiar with Irish music (in my instance- I forgot, not everyone here plays Irish music :slight_smile: ) are very forgiving and don’t hear much of what’s happening good or bad. If you get a decent ryhthm going, that will carry the day.

Side note on this wedding: my sister is a bit flambuoyent (spelling?) and her friends are a bit on the wild side. We’re also having at least six relatives from Dublin attending. One of my cousins is going to (attempt) to teach a little Irish dancing during the reception. I’ll play a reel, Wind that Shakes the Barley and a waltz (?) Shoe the Donkey. I just downloaded the abc’s for the waltz to learn. Should be a riot. If it’s a fiasco, so much the better. We’ll blame it on the champagne. :laughing:

And how’s this for shear luck? When I put in my year’s requests for vacation days last March, I randomly picked today and Friday for a couple of them. Hence, I’m sitting here drinking coffee and I’ll be getting out the whistles presently for a long practice today and tomorrow (and a long warmup on Sat am).
Tony