How much do you adjust your embouchure/air direction when moving between notes in the lower octave?

I’ve been playing flute for ~9 months on a delrin flute and have recently upgraded to a wooden flute. I absolutely love the sound of it, but I’m really struggling with intonation. On my delrin flute, I am able to go through the first and second octaves without many intonation issues (i.e. +/- 5-10 cents), but with this flute I find that my low D and E are often 15 cents sharp and my low G is 20 cents flat (F# being slightly less flat). I’ve adjusted the cork and adjusted the tuning slide ad nauseam, but without much improvement. Anyway, I was wondering if I perhaps underestimated the amount of adjustment that I would need to make for these notes. While my delrin flute is able to accommodate this interval without too much adjustment, I feel like on this flute I need to make comparatively drastic changes to get the respective notes within a decent range of intonation. I’ve made some progress by adjusting my embouchure and air direction when playing slowly, but I’m concerned that this may not be feasible when playing quickly. I understand that adjustments are required when moving from the low to the high registers (or to get a “honking” low D), but it feels quite weird to go from a perfectly in-tune low B or A to a -20 low G (with no change in embouchure or breath support). I apologize if I haven’t given sufficient details, and I would greatly appreciate any thoughts!

Can you please supply some details about the flute itself as far as maker, maybe include a photo?

Thank you for your reply! Out of respect to the maker (given that this seems likely to be a “me” problem), I’d rather not name them, but I will say that this is a one-person shop in North America who has received strong reviews on this site and elsewhere.

Really, this is something best handled one-on-one with a teacher, either in person or on Zoom. Do you have anyone you are working with?

Are the delrin and wooden flutes both from the same maker?

Thank you for your reply! They are not–the delrin is made by Galéon and the wooden flute is made by a small shop maker based in North America.

I do not–I have been considering starting, however, so that is helpful to hear!

Definitely find either a teacher or a more experienced flute player to see what’s up. It may be that the wooden flute simply isn’t as in tune as your Delrin one. Wood isn’t necessarily better. That said, maybe you just need more time to adjust to the new flute…it may indeed be a you problem.

Since the two flutes are made by different makers, and you have tuning problems on one but not the other, it seems less likely to be a you problem, and more likely to be an issue with the tuning on the wooden flute. It would be useful to find an experienced player and have them play your flutes and give you their opinion. I find that there does tend to be quite a bit of consistency in tuning among flutes from the best makers. But there are also outliers. I don’t know who made your wooden flute, and I haven’t played a Galeon, so I can’t be more specific than that.

Answering the question in the title - I don’t know but probably more than I think I do. I have recently been experimenting with a piccolo head on a Generation Eb whistle. I’m not very good at playing unfamiliar whistles in tune because I don’t make automatic adjustments so it’s easy to just blow and change the fingering. Doing that with the whistles own head the intonation is erratic. Playing a tune using the piccolo head - with how its sounds on the flute in mind - the intonation is OK so I must be making adjustments.

So my question would be "Are you sure you are not adjusting on the delrin flute and then blowing the wooden one the same way?

That last sentence is better stated than how I ended my post…that it might be a “you” problem. We all make miniscule adjustments we don’t think of when we know a flute well.

I do agree, though, that top makers tend to produce well tuned flutes…but none are truly perfect. There is a reason the Boehm flute supplanted the older flutes.

I have played both a Rudall and Pratten Galeon, and neither had any tuning problems. I did have a bit of an adjustment to the rounded rectangle embouchure cut at first on the Pratten, but overcame that in a little bit.

One other possibility is that you are having an issue adjusting to how the embouchure is cut, if it has a deeper chimney or a more undercut one from the different maker. This happened to me with about 3 different maker’s flutes; they just didn’t suit me and how I blew. I much preferred the deep chimney cut, probably because I blow more across than down.

Of course, you adjust how you blow at times for different notes, whether it be direction of air flow or rolling the headjoint in or out to accomplish that, along with varying your lip spacing and force of blow, for whatever you need to do, depending also on which octave you are playing. So yeah, there always are adjustments you are making unconsciously all the time to play in tune, even if it doesn’t seem you are, but it shouldn’t be that dramatic an adjustment on a modern made flute. Unless it was made that way, as in Sam Murray’s that were tailored to play flat on the bottom to accommodate a certain playing style.

Adaptability to playing Irish flute comes in time. Galeon flutes may be tuned so that you need not make as many adjustments, so moving to a different maker can have an adjustment period, for those various reasons, or as paddler said too, that it could be a one-off and best to get another opinion from a good fluter.

Edit; by the way, I’m still a hack on the flute, so take what I say with a grain of salt. This has been my experience only, and not meant to be taken as universal truths!

9 months playing the flute, it could be any number of issues.

Again, find a teacher, even one online, and most likely you’ll have the root cause of the issue sorted in an hour.

Some thoughts for the OP:

Your first step should be to get the following information from the maker:

1. What amount of slide extension was the flutes optimized for - meaning at what amount of slide extension was the instrument tuned during manufacture.

2. Ditto for the headjoint stopper.

3. What note, if any, was used as the foundation note for tuning. In other words, since all simple system flute scales are a compromise and not all notes will be equally in tune (without some adjustment by the player) then there is usually one note that, when tuned to, will yield the best overall tuning throughout the range. Hint, it’s rarely the bottom D, and often not the A 440.

Once you have this info, set the stopper and slide “to spec” and play the flute without further adjustment until it is fully warmed up. At this point break out the tuner and try to play the foundation note in tune. You shouldn’t be wildly off. Adjust your embouchure, blowing angle of attack, and breath pressure until you can play the foundation note in tune, then try to play the rest of the notes of the scale in the first octave by blowing the same way and see how the intonation comes out. If the 1st octave is pretty good, then tackle the second.

If however, the scale is still all over the place, then I mostly agree with Michael Eskin, consulting a teacher would be advised, though I’d opt for in-person if at all possible as problematic flutes can be difficult to diagnose and/or rule out long distance.

Additional thoughts:

Wood flutes aren’t necessarily better than polymer flutes, in fact in some cases wood flutes are……significantly less good, and I’m not talking about the pros and cons of polymer vs. wood, if you get my drift.

That said, since you aren’t blaming the maker of your wood flute, it shouldn’t be problematic to name them, and it could be quite helpful in solving your problem, but we aren’t going to twist your arm, since playing flute with a twisted arm is a challenge.

Also, flutes with unusually small holes can be…..unusually problematic with regards to intonation and/or volume hole to hole, and there can be more interplay between these two things on small hole flutes. To be clear I don’t really mean small hole flutes in general of the sort that were designed to be small hole flutes, rather I am specifically talking about the type of small hole flutes that were originally designed as medium to large hole flutes that have been tinkered with to create the modern day “small handed” adaptations. No idea if this applies to either of your flutes, but it’s something else to be aware of when trying to sort out issues.

Finally, if you can measure the tuning slide extension and Headjoint stopper placement of your Galeon and post those numbers, then other Galeon players may be able to confirm that you are, or are not, in the ballpark of what works for them. If you are close to what works for others who play in tune, then the problem is less likely you. If you are 1/2” of tuning slide extension or more off from other players, you may have developed a way of playing that can be problematic on other flutes.

OK, enough of that, good luck!

I think the main message here is dont fret on it, you are 9 months playing a flute, its probably one of the toughest instruments to master interms of tone and intonation.

If you are really concerned hand your flute at the local session to someone who has been playing for years, you will hear the difference immediately.

Its a long but rewarding journey, enjoy..

I have a keyed and also a keyless Delrin flute from the same maker and whilst they do play very similar there is a noticeable difference. I have only been playing for w years and whilst it only takes a day or two of playing the keyless flute after playing the keyless flute for several months it certainly took a bit of time to adjust. It is probably best at least while learning to only play the one flute and so be able to measure improvement better. I have a monthly lesson with an excellent Irish Flute teacher and this has proved invaluable! Enjoy and play every day :musical_notes::musical_note::musical_notes:

This is normal when switching from a Delrin flute to a wooden flute. Wooden flutes are usually more sensitive to embouchure, air direction, and breath support, so larger pitch adjustments are often needed. Since your low B and A are in tune but G, F#, D, and E are not, the issue is likely more about adapting your technique than the cork or tuning slide. With practice, these adjustments will become automatic, even in fast passages. If the problem remains after a few weeks, it may be worth having the flute checked by a technician to rule out any setup issues.