I’m always joking around with my fiancé about moving to Ireland, and I was just wondering how hard is it exactly to move to Ireland? I’m sure there are hundred upon hundreds of websites devoted to this very subject. But who wants to read some bloody webpage when they can just go to the source? Our friendly neighborhood Chiff board Irish Mates?
Also on the same subject… Sort of… I’m trying to find a family Tartan for Both my “Burns” ancestors and “Michael” but all the traditional ways have turned up didly squat. I did find a Coat-Of-Arms for “Burns” but no tartan. I haven’t been able to find anything for “Michael.” I have been assured by my quite Irish looking Grandmother “Mary Anne Michael” that she is quite Irish, and the spellings that she gave me are correct. I can’t even find a County of Origin I’m not good at this sort of stuff.
I’ts not easy, unless you happen to have a parent who was born there. In view of the cost of living, your family connections in the US, and the cold wet weather, I’d advise against it.
On the other hand, a couple of years in Ireland might change your whole outlook on life in the US.
If your “Burns” ancestors are Irish, they didn’t have a tartan. If they’re Scottish, you may have some luck researching some of the Scottish ancestry sites…check under alternative spellings, such as “Byrnes.”
Be wary of coats of arms. First, most families don’t actually have them (regardless of what the sites and catalogs that sell such things would like you to think). Second, arms aren’t attached to names, but to individuals. If there is a coat of arms associated with the name “Burns,” it’s because at some point, some fellow of that name did something for some monarch (usually British). Only he and his direct, patrilineal descendents are entitled to use them. In order to learn if they were “your” arms, first you’d have to determine if you’re actually descended from the individual who was awarded those arms and not from some other fellow named "Burns, "and then you’d need to determine if it was a matter of primogeniture (if you’re descended from a younger son, and further, from one of his younger sons, and so on down the line, you may not be entitled to the arms, or you may have to “difference” the arms with some mark of candency). For what it’s worth, most Americans do not come from families or branches of families that are actually entitled to coats of arms or family crests.
As far as immigrating to Ireland goes, there are some websites out there. As you’re not an EU citizen, you would be limited as to how much land you could buy, except for in certain areas, and you wouldn’t be able to work, most likely. I think it’s five years (at least it was the last time I checked) of residency required to apply for citizenship.
In many cases, surnames (and even first names) changed when the British started keeping censuses and “guessed” at the spelling of Irish names (or even just made substitutions…that’s how we ended up with “Sorcha/Sarah” and “Grainne/Grace”…the names aren’t related, but some census taker thought they sounded close enough!). That could have happened well before your grandmother’s time, so while she might be quite sure about the spelling she knows, it may not actually be the original spelling (and probably isn’t). The nice thing about the sight above is it gives you the Irish name affiliated with the Anglicized name.
I, myself, have plans to move to Ireland - to live there 4 months
in every year.
I am going to collect all those stones and
build me a hut at Connor Pass.
My wife is of Irish ancestry.
She even has a rosary
made of pressed rose petals.
That’s a lot harder to do here than it used to be. INS looks really hard at the marriage…how long had you been dating, did other people know you were planning to get married, what are your future plans, etc. There were too many “convenience marriages” happening, so now it’s much harder for someone who legitimately marries an American national to get residency.
More so today, but when my wife and I married 22 years back, we had to jump through a lot of hoops - and because one INS official (I’m convinced his mother chases cars and bays at the moon) accused us of having a sham marriage, it took us several months longer, and several thousand dollars more, than it should have.
Our “sham marriage” has lasted 22 years so far, and she has been a US citizen for the last 17. But we still remember the power the INS had to make things easy or hard.
I knew one fellow, a former coworker, who brought his wife back to Ireland from the US (and got her Irish citizenship) - he told me it was easier if you could (as she did) prove at least one grandparent was Irish, but I don’t know any of the details beyond that.
It’s also my understanding that the jobs picture is far less rosy than it was a few years back - I’d imagine that has some effect on immigration. Can anyone actually living in Ireland, and familiar with the system, add any details?
On the tartan issue, there are a couple of things . . . there are nice regional tartans as well, so you might look at those. The other thing is that the relationship between families and tartans is . . . at best . . . tenuous. Many of them are Victorian inventions. So do what a lot of Scots do . . . pick one you like!
On the emigration issue . . . hmm. No ideas from me on that one.
It is relevant to the post I replied to (and quoted), because Cranberry had mentioned people marrying American citizens in order to establish American residency, which is a lot harder to do than it used to be. I believe such “marriages of convenience” are harder just about everywhere these days…including Ireland. No one…me or Cranberry, suggested that marrying an American citizen would get you Irish residency.
I’m also not sure how relevant the person you marry is to where you want to live either. I can’t see how marrying an Irishwoman, no matter how beloved, would make one less likely to want to move to Ireland. That’s like saying the fact that I married a California boy I love deeply makes me less likely to “need” to live in California! Or am I supposed to stop loving the landscape and the culture because I married someone who came from there?
To look in his eyes will be like being in California, you see.
I’ve known people who married Americans so as to
get into the country. Convenience. These stories
have the following twist, often. The couple then,
upon being married, becomes confused, thinks
that maybe they really are married, get attached
to one another, live together miserably for a few
years, then divorce. Anybody who thinks that
‘marriage is just a piece of paper,’ think twice.
I don’t know why I didn’t think of this, but an online friend of mine wanted to move to France and she had to prove that she had a job waiting on her, prove that she had the money to pay for absolutely everything she was going to do (I guess so she wouldn’t get on welfare?), and it was a helluva long process but she eventually got to live there (and moved back to the States after less than a year).
Redwolf,
I was jest jokin
about the relevance issue
in a pedantic vein
and
my haiku at the end of my post
is about landscape and culture evoked
with a person one has a loving bond
and the title of my post
clearly flagged this.
As someone into Christian theology
I expected you would discern
the consonant spirit in my post
rather than the apparent dissonance.
Haven’t you ever been with someone
you loved
and their gaze carried you away?
I checked this out a couple of years ago, as I’m entitled to Irish citizenship, through having 2 Irish grandparents. This still holds (I think it’s written into the Irish Constitution).
Until 3-4 years ago, citizenship was granted automatically to spouses of Irish citizens. Now however, it’s the standard EU model, which requires a spouse to live in Ireland for 3 years before citizenship is granted.
Moving to Ireland or any other part of the EU is one thing, but citizenship is quite another. Unless you have an offer of work, you may have to reside there for 2-3 years before you can earn your living.
My wife is Chinese, but she now holds a UK passport: the process wasn’t too painful, and it wasn’t expensive, but it does take at least 3 years.
There is actually a referendum in a couple of weeks with regards to a change in the Irish constitution re citizenship, the government is moving to tighten up things.
The weather in Ireland is such that it’s very hard to cope with, only the odd good day makes up for the endless bad ones. I look on life in ireland in it’s entirety in that way, I can’t see myself living anywhere else but there are things you have to put up with. Moving to Ireland is simple enough, mustering up the commitment to stay proves a problem for a lot of ‘blow-ins’.
You have to ask yourself why you want to go there, spend a good bit of time to get some impression beforehand whether or not you will like the life, the weather, the rip-off economy, the highest cost of living in Europe, the highest average houseprices in Europe [bar central London], the state of medical care and little issues like that. And if you come to check things out, come in november, january or early february.
The present rule for foreign-born Irish to obtain citizenship is that you must have one grandparent who was born in Ireland. Some web sites to get started are http://www.irlgov.ie/iveagh/ and http://www.ask-ireland.com/ . You have to obtain birth, marriage and death certificates for yourself and all others who connect you with the Irish-born ancestor. I received Irish citizenship a year ago based on my grandfather who was born in Dublin. I pursued it, not because I want to live in Ireland, but because my wife holds Italian citizenship and we wanted for both of us to be EU citizens to make things easier if we want to live in Europe after retirement.
Michael Burns
Well my Grandmother is Irish, and both her Parrents were born in Ireland. How far back their respected families go I do not know. I lot of information like that was lost on purpose, seeing that the Irish as a whole weren’t viewed to highly in this area. A lot of times they were treated as barely more than slave labor. When your employer ownes your house, all your possessions, and the police force, and pays you a nickle for working a 16 hour day in a coal mine, it is sort of hard to not call that slave labor. As for the weather aspect.. Well I’m a cold-damp weather sort of person. When it gets into the high 90’s in the summer I am so miserable. 60’s-70’s are just my cup of tea. Cold doesn’t bother me as much as the heat. When it’s cold you can put more clothes on. When its hot you can only get naked and still be hot. Sorry if anyone accidently had a mental flash of me naked… I feel your pain :roll: The place where I work just opened up a Plant in Loughrea Ireland. It’s called “Fluortek Inc.” Would it be easier to get citezenship for a different EU country? My Other Grandmother was Brittish (or Perhapse Welsh I’m not sure).
I find both of these statements both amusing and, to put it bluntly, infuriating. The US is often bitterly criticized, especially in Europe, for trying to restrict immigration. If we are supposed to maintain a welcome mat and a wide open door, isn’t it rather hypocritical for our fiercest critics to hide behind their own glaring double standards?
I’m not good at this sort of stuff.
