A while back I acquired a mandolin. I pluck away at it every now and then. I can pick out a few tunes but not well enough to go out in public.
I was curious what you do about ornamentation. Is there such a thing with a mandolin?
Do you just play the melody or are you supposed to play chords with the melody?
My mandolin has only 4 strings. Will I hinder my learning that way or should I put the other 4 strings on? I fear I might find the double course frustrating, but maybe I’m doing more harm than good.
Put the other strings on, the instrument is made to have a certain tension on the neck and leaving strings off is not good for it. If you want to play with four strings get a banjo. It is more common to play melody on the mando and personally I don’t like the sound of playing chords in ITM sound to blugrassy for my taste.
Ornamentation like other instruments in trad is up to the player. Common ornaments would be picked triplets, grace notes, and double stops you can also roll on some mandos, but some don’t really have enough sustain to do so. Picked triplets are the usual replacement for rolls, but some people prefer not to do them as they say it sound too “Banjo-esque.”
A bit of technique that is good to use is to make sure you pick up and down every time do not hit two consecutive notes with two down picks or two up picks. Some people will disagree and say to use dud dud (d=down stroke, u=upstroke) in jigs, but personally I find this technique to be more trouble that help and it will slow your playing down when it comes time to speed it up. In reels and hornpipes always hit the down beat with a down stroke, this isn’t always possible when playing triplets so to reverse the picking you would need to triplet again, but at this stage you needn’t worry about that. This is proper technique as taught to me by my teacher who is a well known Banjo/Mando player. I am not a great Mandolinist and no expert, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
You should certainly get the rest of the strings on it, not just for the instrument’s sake, but for yours as well. The double strings are fundamental to the mandolin’s sound and the player’s technique. While it takes a little effort to get the hang of the double courses, you’ll be glad you put in the time.
While the mandolin plays chords quite well, in ITM that duty is usually left to it’s lower voiced cousins like the bouzouki and octave mandolin. But since there’s really no ancient tradition for mandolin in ITM, there’s a lot of experimenting going on today. Some like the mandolin chords, others don’t.
As for ornaments, they are similar to those used by the other fretted strings, like the banjo, but are of course up to the players descretion. Triplets are among the most common ornaments and probably the first most important to master.
I’m not a mandolin player but I have tried it and done some workshops. I believe it is quite common for mandolin player to play two notes in the same direction, particularly on jigs, e.g, dud dud.
I use two note “chords” quite a lot, but rarely three or more note ones.
Definitely add the other strings, and make sure your mandolin is set up right so the action makes fingering easy.
Thank you for all the advice! I’ll try to pick up a set of strings this week.
Interesting there aren’t as many ornaments but the recordings on that site don’t make it sound like you’re at a loss for that. Wow, those are great! They’re even tunes we play at our session.
I may try to learn old-time someday too. The mandolin looks like one you play old-time on, not one you play ITM on. But for now the only tunes in my head are Irish ones so that’s all I’ve attempted.
Go for light gauge strings to start. Elixir nanoweb strings cost a bit more but will last far longer than regular strings. The string coating also makes them easier on your fingers. All good things when you are just getting started with double strings.
Try learning some bluegrass tunes as well as the ITM stuff. IMO, much as I love ITM, the mandolin seems less suited to ITM than it does to bluegrass, old-time, folk, etc.
Wonderful resource for the mandolinista. As to ornamentation, it really depends on the type of music. If you are playing a Scottish pipe march, there are some things that can help imitate the ornamentation of the pipes. I find DUD DUD to be the best for picking jigs, but that’s how I first learned. And I’ll echo the double stringing. It will take you a bit of time to build up the finger strength to compensate for the extra tension, but it’s WELL worth the effort.
I wish I could learn old-time but I can only play it by ear and since I have no proficiency on the instrument, my ability to find any notes on it lags way behind the music. When I go to the old-time jam I bring my mountain dulcimer. Easiest thing in the world to play.
On second thought, maybe I will bring it to the jam and see if I can play a note here and there. I suppose it wouldn’t hurt. They don’t mind that sort of thing like they would at an Irish session.
Playing dud udu is faster, but the speed comes at the expense of the correct emphasis and groove. Plus you have to learn all your ornamentation two ways: one for dud and one for udu. Playing dud dud, with a downstroke on every strong note, lets you drop ornaments in anywhere you like, and it just sounds better. It takes a bit of work to get the pattern under your fingers, but once you do, you pretty much rule the jig universe.
I’m quite a bit more proficient on mando than flute or whistle. I don’t much care to play ITM on it, though. I feel lost in the shuffle, and don’t feel like it adds a whole lot. YMMV.
I got new strings and it actually seems easier to play with the double course. Sounds prettier, too.
I’m terrible at controlling the up/down thing. The duddud seems to come automatically to me. So does uddudd and I think that’s because in my mind that seems a lot like how the flute is played, at least when it’s something like Connaughtman’s Ramble with the FAA DAA structure.
If you want a jig to swing and pulse correctly, the dud-dud picking pattern is way superior to anything else, in my opinion. This is how it was taught to me by Marla Fibish and others. It is well worth the time investment to learn it.
Just how magical you find them depends on how acid your skin is ordinarily. Some people find that elixirs make little difference, while others are amazed.
Triplets, and indeed almost all the right-hand mandolin ornaments, are offshoots of the basic mandolin staple: tremolo. In other instruments like the guitar, tremolo itself is an ornamentation, but on the mandolin it’s the fundamental technique for achieving sustained notes. Although there aren’t that many long notes in ITM, the triplets, rolls, etc are natural offshoots of tremolo. Before you worry too much about indvidual ornaments, I suggest you master the tremolo. The others will fall into place much more naturally.
In my experience, most folks who struggle with the mandolin do so because they are starting out playing ITM on it, and since jigs, reels, hornpipes, etc, don’t use long sustained notes, they focus on learning single picking first (all that DUD and UDU business you’ll read about). The majority of ITM mandolinists I’ve known all but ignore tremolo. But tremolo is as rudimentary to the mandolin as using breath control to change octaves with the tin whistle. If you achieve a smooth, fluid tremolo first, everything else becomes MUCH easier. Besides, with the basic temolo under your belt, you’ll be well positioned to explore other mandolin styles as well. There’s a lot to be said for a little classical training in folk music.
I sure wish I knew! I’m back playing tenor banjo and the triplets drive me crazy.
PS- This thread is a good example of how you can get conflicting advice on the internet. sbfluter’s mandolin used to be mine, which she got in a trade. When I was starting out on it, I got a lot of recommendations to learn with 4 strings (I believe it was banjo hangout that I got the advice from). The reason hers had 4 strings is because I didn’t get a chance to re-string before sending it. And the advice here is opposite, which just goes to show. Not saying either method is right or wrong, just making the observation.
You can’t trust anything a banjo player says… I can see the logic in the single-string thinking, especially from someone playing tenor banjo, but my thinking is that if you want a mandolin sound, go with the double course stringing, otherwise you have to nearly start over when you double string.
I agree completely. It sounds like someone giving advice drawn from their tenor banjo exprience. I think it would add to your difficulties in the long run. I play banjo and mandolin, and the technique is different for both. Not much, but just enough.
Quiick question though, having learned triplets first on single strings, how’s your temolo?
