Aproaches for the B-C#-d -x figure on Mando

Trad Strings
1

Just curious how others are dealing with this figure, with regards to picking. As I’m working on swapping tunes I know on the flute/whistle over to Mando, I’m trying to find more satisfying (sound wise) ways to deal with some of the things that don’t transfer as easily, like the common B-C#-d 8th note triplet figure leading into e or e-f#, as would be commonly played in Silver Spear, for example.

I’d prefer my mando playing not sound entirely like tenor banjo, all articulated triplets and such. So I’m gravitating towards trying to work in some legato, however picking B and then hammering both C# and d isn’t working so well for me, as the volume of the the d note is just too low, particularly when followed immediately by the open string e. Guess I’ve just got a wussy ring finger :laughing:

So, for the moment, I’ve settled on picking B, hammering C#, then the picking d and e, which seems okay, although I need some more practice to really even things out, both in terms of smoothness and volume between notes.

At any rate, I’m curious how others approach this figure, since i’m certain there are other interesting options.

Loren

2

I think you’ll find most mando players of Trad Irish music would pick those notes individually with no hammering. But, some mandos might sustain the tone better than others throughout the hammer. I tried hammering those notes on Silver Spear and didn’t like the tone either. Once you get the hang of it, the picked triplet won’t seem so difficult. Most of it is how you hold your pick, the angle of the pick to the string, the wrist, and the thickness and shape of your pick. I use to hold my wrist flat on reels, now I find my arm lasts longer holding the wrist in the arched position and striking the string at an angle down to the right…in the same position you’d find the deeper smoother tones with tremolo. I hold the pick loosely so it flexes just a little depending on whether I need a down stroke or back stroke, or rotating between strings from inside to inside (cross-picking), or outside to outside…(like on the A and D strings only). When I hold the wrist flat, I angle the pick backwards (to the above description), and grip it with the thumb and the first two fingers.

I remember from a workshop I took from Mick Moloney at Pt. Townsend where he showed us all his tricks. I never did learn his particular style, but it worked great for him. He used those huge triangular picks with pointed (not rounded) tips and held the pick between the lower side of the thumb and the lower side of his index finger…right where his thumb attached to his hand! Very awkward! Right…most of his thumb was hanging out in mid-air!

3

I usually pick all the notes in that figure; sometimes playing B-C# on the downstroke and d on the upstroke also works but unless your mandolin has great sustain and/or really light strings* there’s not enough energy to get the d note to really come out just by banging the string on the fret. Doing a short-roll kind of triplet like B-C-B is another matter because you can pull off the middle finger to get the last note to sound.

*possibly TI mittels might work for this, but there may be some sacrifice in volume.

4

I agree with the 2 posts above. You would typically pick all the notes in a triplet. This is where the right flexiblility of a pick comes in handy. It takes some practise, but you can do it.

5

To add my voice to the chior, or my mandolin to the band. I tend to pick everything, save of course slower figures or smoother, jazzy solos.

6

OK, I’m just an intermediate player at best, but here’s a few clips of my attemps at ornamentation. The elusive “cut” is the hardest for me.

http://members.impulse.net/~wolvert/pullet.mp3

http://members.impulse.net/~wolvert/rose.mp3

http://members.impulse.net/~wolvert/banks.mp3


I have been trying to do cuts like the way Grey Larsen does them
on his flute and concertina. with the right timing on a pull-off, it
should be do-able.

  • t
7

Sounds like you’re well on your way. Fingered ornaments are hard on mandolin, i think. I don’t know if you’ve heard any of Simon Mayor’s playing, but he uses a lot of hammer-on and pull-offs and even then it’s kind of subtle stuff:
http://www.acousticsrecords.co.uk/Real/fdwasp.rm

8

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas gang, much appreciated.

Certainly a topic ripe for discussion. My desire to look for other ways of articulating things has noting to do with the difficulty of picking each note, rather it’s a matter of wanting to avoid getting stuck in the rut of picking every note because I can’t think or do otherwise.

This desire partially stems from some issues I’m now trying to correct with my flute/whistle playing, where I essentially learned to play tunes a certain way and only a certain way (in terms of ornamentation.) I’m finding this makes my playing sound too reptitive, because I lack the ability to freely play variations, as opposed to playing variations by wrote. This is proving difficult to break free of, and I now realize I would have been much better off learning at least some tunes early on by going through phrase by phrase learning to swap cut’s for rolls, and rolls for slides and so on. As it is, I can only “Hear” one way to do things in my head, when it comes to many common tunes, I lack the ability and technical freedome to, apropriately make ornamentation substitutions for variation.

It seems to me that in the case of Mandolin in ITM, it would be even easier to fall into this trap. As much as I like the sound of Tenor Banjo playing in ITM (see there Par, I’m not biased :stuck_out_tongue: ), as a listenter, I find the constant straight picking of every triplet and ornamentation, rather boring and monotonous, so I would like to avoid that approach, and I figure it’s better to start early this time, rather than trying to round up the horse and get it back in the barn somewhere down the road.

That said, I fully intend to work on my picking technique and the execution of fast picked triplets, as I realize this IS an important aspect of playing ITM on mando, and the freedom to make to choices with regards to one’s playing comes (in part) from having developed sound technique, obviously.

Okay, enough philosophizing: I’ve committed to spending more time practicing these days than I type, so enough for now, and off to walk my roomate’s dog, make some breakfast and get some practicing done.

Thanks again all, I’m finding the information folks are contributing both enlightening and helpful, and the small size of this forum makes it much easier to in some ways than the Cafe (which I still love)

Loren