How do you learn to play with others?

I’ve been kicking this around for a while because I think it’s a little embarassing, but without asking I won’t figure it out.

Even though I’ve had an instrument or two around for most of my life, played with varying degrees of ineptitude, I haven’t really tried to play WITH anyone else since high school band almost 4 decades ago.

It doesn’t matter how well I know a song or can play it by myself, I totally freeze up when trying to play with anyone else. The simplest and best known songs simply disappear from my mind and hands at the moment when another instrument joins me or I try to play along with someone else. This includes recordings and videos.

Maybe this is just my problem but it’s amazingly frustrating. At least three times I have triggered an impromptu jam session when I was just playing by and for myself and real musicians went to join in - and I couldn’t participate. This is not just with a whistle - it also happens with mountain dulcimer.

It doesn’t help that there are literally no teachers within a hundred miles. I know that there are teachers and very experienced session players here, so I figured any hope is better than none. If anyone has any ideas how i can get over or through this, I’d be most grateful.

I would try having someone slowly work through a tune with you, either a new one or one you already mostly know. And you focus on learning the tune, the other person plays along as a guide, and before you know it you’re playing with someone. Maybe that will break the ice of the concept.

I still screw up a lot when playing with others, mostly because of tempo or a missed note that snowballs. But I am getting better and I learn a LOT more playing with others than on my own. It’s worth it!

The test for me, though, will be whether I have the confidance to play on campus when I return to school this winter and spring. I generally have a wallflower personality in social situations and the few times I have tried to play on campus within earshot of another person I have chickened out pretty badly!

Good luck!

Try playing along with mp3 files on your computer. It helps you learn to get back on track after a mistake. Also, your instrument sounds different when playing with others which can throw you off.

Good luck,
Mike

I agree with both posts. Practice with
the computer or a c.d. until you can play
the song and watch t.v. at the same time
(until you REALLY know it well). Then try
an understanding friend. Yes, you will STILL
mess up even with out the t.v. distraction,
which always surprises me when I get out in public, but you will eventually get used
to the distractions. Sometimes I just have to close my eyes to concentrate!
Just keep trying.
Lolly

I can play merrily for hours at sessions, but it’s still very normal for me to screw up a tune pretty badly the first few times I play it with other people. (Even if I can play along with a CD.) If there’s a secret other than keep on trying until you get it right, I don’t know it.

I had a bit of this same problem when I started transitioning from solo play to group play. What helped me get over the hump was to play along with recordings that had been slowed down, with headphones. I put the recordings on softly, at first, so that I could easily drown them out with my whistle. Then, as I gained more confidence and began being able to ‘hear’ my own whistle in the group setting, I’d turn the volume up and/or speed up the tune. I’d be satisfied I could play the tune in session when I got the tune at 20% faster-than-normal tempo, and at a volume where I could barely hear the whistle.

Nowadays, I don’t have to jump through such hoops…Much like flub-recovery, it’s a skill that grows with practice.

I have the same problem Chuck, mine is caused by hearing someone do something that catches my attention and for that brief moment it happens I get completely lost and have a hard time picking back up again. Guess it just comes with experience

The advice to play along with recordings is probably well-intentioned, but Chuck did say he has the same problems performing with a recording.

I suspect there are a couple of things going on, but one of them may be that when others play you listen to them and get distracted from your own playing. You might want to practice focusing on and hearing your own whistle. A good way to practice this is to play a tune with the radio on to some other music. That should help you sharpen your focus on your own music and avoid being distracted.

Or you can borrow my two small children for a weekend. You learn the art of ignoring that way as well :slight_smile:.

Of course, being deaf to the other musicians isn’t the ultimate goal. In time, you’ll develop the ability to hear the other musicians without being distracted from your own music (and that’s presumably key to playing well in a group).

Another problem may be performance anxiety – stumbling and losing it because you are afraid that you’re not “up to snuff” or are wrecking the experience for the other musicians. Persistence will eventually cure that, I think, but one thing you can try doing which might be helpful is to listen to recordings of yourself – solo or playing along to a CD. You might be surprised at how good you sound. It will also help you realize that flubs and mistakes aren’t always as obvious to the listener as they are to you.

Anyway, I hope some of those suggestions are useful.

– Scott

On 2002-09-10 16:40, srt19170 wrote:
The advice to play along with recordings is probably well-intentioned, but Chuck did say he has the same problems performing with a recording.

Yup. I did too…slowing it down and making it quiet made it easier for me, which is why I specifically talked about those techniques. I suspect the problem for me was a focus issue as well. I was too geared up to listening, and didn’t have enough brain power for focus. What littlle brain power I had was consumed by jitters. Playing with slowed down, quiet recordings helped me addres both issues. I suspect your suggestion might work as well. :wink:

I don’t know if this will help or not but this is a “technique” I use a lot in memorizing and performing classical piano music… and why not apply it to the whistle? When I learn something on the piano that I need to perform from memory, I section it off and know EXACTLY what is happening, inside and out, at the beginning of each section. So when I get on stage and start thinking too much about what my hands our do, my brain can take over and say, “Oh yeah, Section B begins with a B major chord”… So, I’m thinking maybe if you take a couple tunes and section them off like that-- if you read music, section off every few measures, if not just go by phrases… wherever a logical place is for a beginning/ending, make that a section. And then know PRECISELY what is going on there… look at what your fingers are doing, memorize the name of what note you’re playing. Especially make sure you know how the A section begins and how the B sections begins. This may all sound really rigid and downright unmusical— But, in my experience, when I start playing in a session I suddenly become strangely convinced that I really CAN’T play this tune, and I start asking myself these off-the-wall questions like “What on earth is my first finger doing there on that note??” or “goodness, I don’t remember what note this starts on…” It’s like things that are normally automatic suddenly don’t seem so obvious. The second benefit of sectioning off is that if you get lost or tripped up, you can jump back in!!
Well, anyone who reads this might think I’m crazy, but it’s just an idea, and I guess it works pretty well for me!

I had this problem too for the longest time. Its odd that I don’t remember exactly how or when it became less of a problem. I found out that I couldn’t play with people when I was in hammered dulcimer sessions and ‘lost it’ on tunes that I knew inside and out, but couldn’t do in front of people or with people. So I gave up.

The first time I actually played with someone, it was doing recorder duets with my best friend, who is an accomplished musician and told me ‘just keep on going, I’ll patch in’. She did, and with her patience I was able to get the hang of listening to what I was doing and how someone else fit in. Took time and an unwillingness to give up.

All that may have helped me get over the exact same problem in session. But I did have the problem, and I still can’t just jump in. At first I played only a note or two per bar on the tunes I thought I knew, then I worked like hell on one tune until I thought I had it up to speed, then requested it specifically, and asked that it be played slowly. And miracle of miracles, I played the whole thing through WITH everyone else.

Maybe it was having one person sit with me and work through the problem. First Eileen, then Tom on the whistle once, and figuring out how to come back in (I can only do THAT at the beginning of a section).

Best of luck and don’t give up!

And don’t forget to share your toys.

I have the same problem. Try Toastmasters to overcome performance anxiety. There’s also a drug called Propananol that is taken for stage fright.
Using a louder whistle and tilting it to one side as you play (towards your good ear) will allow you to hear what you are playing. I can’t play a note if I can’t hear myself play.

Try the Virtual Session online ( I forget the URL, but someone here will have it). Pick the tune you know best, and play along with that. After that, see if you can find one musical friend and try to play along with him/her. Trust me, it gets easier…

I long for people to play with in my area …

Virtual session: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/folk/acoustic_club/launch.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/folk/acoustic_club/launch.shtml

:wink:

Unfortunately, their recording of Gravel Walk gets scrambled about 1.5 repeats in. :frowning:

(hey Ava, is this the part where we point at each other and go “jinx!”? hee!)

[ This Message was edited by: Wandering_Whistler on 2002-09-11 09:28 ]

Gee…wish I could give some decent advice but I can’t seeing as how I am jut a rank beginner and think it’s great that you play well enough that you can even consider playing with others!!!
I am so in the grips of performance anxiety that I can barely play if anyone else is in the house…let alone in the same room!! Tunes that I have managed to learn to just warble out on my own turn into terrible sqeaks and squawks the minute someone is listening to me!!! How humiliating!! But then humility is good for the soul isn’t it?? Mine should be getting bright and shiny for now.
I have decided to MAKE myself play for my husband with some regularity..I figure it is the only way to get over it. I guess this would be my pithy advice to you too! As Nike says…JUST DO IT!!!

All the best…Andrea

Thanks to everyone who has posted advice or suggestions. I really do suspect the problem has more to do with anxiety, although having some high-pitch hearing damage may contribute. For some reason, whether at reenactments or craft festivals and such, I was never too worried about playing alone, although the difference may be that I wasn’t playing FOR anyone, just playing to be playing.

It can’t be that I’m too easily distracted because

Did you hear the one about the

Uh, yeah, well where was I…

Thanks again, folks - we may sometimes squabble a bit, but I can’t think of a beter place to ask for help.

When I started to learn to play with others, something that I’m still learning, there were a few things that helped.

First, and formost, I had to learn to listen more and better. I had to learn to hear 2 or more things at the same time. For example hearing both the fiddle and the whistle playing together. This was a change for me because I tended to listen to just one thing, I would listen to the dominant tone depending on which instrument was playing it.

One of my early music teachers in school taught us to appreciate the music on a deeper level. She taught us to hear what each instrument was doing in the piece individually first. She then lead us to focus on what the instruments were doing together in the orchestra or other ensemble.

One thing that helped was pretending to conduct the group. Leading one instrument with my right hand and another with my left.
You can try this. Try to put on your favorite CD, for example one with a fiddle, flute, and guitar or bodhran. Lead the fiddle with your left hand, the whistle with your right hand, and tap you feet along with the guitar/bodhran.

The other thing that helped was learning how to overcome mistakes. When I make a mistake, I tend to stop. In everything else in life this works so I can quickly go back and fix the mistake. In music it doesn’t work. In music you can’t go back. So instead I had to learn how to join in. I knew no matter what, I would alway tend to stop. That was okay as long as I could join back in. To learn this I had a couple of teachers who used to conduct us to ‘join in’. On the elementary level, it was ‘join in’ for the chorus of a song. Later it was join in starting at the 2nd or 3rd or whatever measure. As you learn to do this, more and more you get to be quicker at it. Eventually you join in at the next note which is what ‘playing through’ is, it is simply joining back in on the next note.

To practice this anyone can play both their instruments. Yes, everyone has at least two instruments. We have the one that plays in our heads when we’re remembering a tune, and the one that we play with fingers and breath. Most of the time what I’m playing with fingers and breath is simply trying to copy the instrument that I an playing in my head.

When I learn a tune it usually starts in my head and my fingers and breath join in; usually at the beginning of the first part after my head has played the tune through once or at least the last couple of bars to establish the rythmn and feel of the tune.
So practice letting your hand instrument ‘join in’ with your head instrument at a variety of points in the tune, instead of just at the beginning. You can even play switches with a measure in the head, a bar in the hands, a measure in the head, and the next measure in both. Since the instrument in our heads doesn’t have to be the same as in the hands, you could play fiddle in your head and flute in your hands as you change off.

Learning to ‘join in’ will also pays off when you sit down in a session where they don’t announce what they are going to play. They just start. It may take a couple of bars to recognize which tune they are playing. If you’ve practiced joining in at various places in the tune, you won’t have to wait until the second time through to start playing.

Another part of playing with others is surrendering control. You have to let go. You have to let the group determine the pace and even maybe the timbre of the tune.

The slow down types of software that plays recording at different speeds, helps with this process. You can slow the tune down to various speeds and practice playing with the recording at the various speeds. Playing very slow, just slow, a little faster, and fingers on fire fast. Starting with several slow speeds say 60, 75, and 80 percent of the original, will give you the chance to get the tune’s notes down while also practicing yielding control of the tempo.

On a few occasions, letting go, sparks the magic. By magic, I mean, that point where I am no longer listening to 2 or 3 instruments playing together, I am listening to the group. In fact I am no longer listening and playing, I am simply in the music. Living each moment as it arrives with all the texture and depth that the tune, the companions, and the venue weave together.
Hands, breath, ears, heart flow with the music. For me this is what it means to play ‘with’ others and not just ‘for’ other.

I warn you this connection to others, the music, and the life in tune is addictive. Once tasted, it is an appetite that can swell and lead to all sorts bizzare behaviors: bursts of laughter, tear of eye, bouncing feet, nodding heads, soaring heart. Yep, addictive in the extreme. You will find yourself willing to do all these thing just so you can …

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Enjoy Your Music,

Lee Marsh

[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2002-09-11 11:29 ]