How did you learn to play the whistle?

Curious to know how did you learn to play the tin whistle, or how you made any progress further on. Did you watch YouTube videos, got a tutor book, had a personal teacher or a course?

What is one thing you were (or still are) struggling with the most as a tin whistle player?

P.S. Based on my experience, I wrote a couple of free tin whistle lessons for beginners (there are several videos included too). Feel free to check it out and let me know if you can think about any improvements that I can add to the website.

Nice site with good info for beginners, I’ll share it.

I came to the whistle many years ago, from being a professional classical musician, and being a secondary level public school and university instructor. I also performed in a pseudo-Celtic band, playing hammer dulcimer, and wanted to branch out. Whistle intrigued me. Two more bands - and many years - later, and whistle has become an integral part of what the current band does… Hopefully, we can all get back to giving concerts in the next year. We cancelled so many, in 2020.

While I used every whistle resource I could find, including much written material, and the expertise of many on C&F, my real education began after one of my band 's concerts one evening - far away from home - where the musician hired to play during our break, was a harpist and whistle/silver flute player. We talked afterwards. I asked her how she liked the band, and what she thought of the whistle work. She told me that I ‘faked it’ better than most people who attempt iTrad whistle.

Ouch. And so we talked some more. And then, some more, over the following weeks… She lived a state away, but I was intrigued. I decided to invest in a real whistle education, and for many years have made the 2.5 hour journey, once every two weeks, and have had 45 minute lessons, with solid technique instruction being amplified by much new repertoire. It is an investment in time, money, and energy, that has been totally worth everything we both put into it.

My teacher is tough, and like me, comes from a classical background. As for her toughness, I would not want it, any other way.

Bottom line: For me - especially coming at it from the perspective of an educator, myself - there Is nothing like real-time, hands-on instruction. When Covid hit around us, we had to cease in-person lessons, and probably would have shifted to Zoom, or some such platform, even though I am not a fan… However, I ended up having medical challenges for the last 21 months, and lessons ceased. We fully intend to work together again, when the fates allow. I have a lot of learning left to do…

Had a friend ages ago that had a stack of Seán Ó Riada/Ceoltóirí Chualann records, and we listened to them a lot and began to play along with them.

I mostly learn with youtubue tutorial’s. But its very important for other beginners to know that a lot of the youtube tutorials are bad information. So anyone learning with youtube should make sure to have several sources, hopefully reputable ones, to make sure that what they are learning is accurate.

I really never set out to learn the whistle.

I was a piper first, then I took up the Irish Flute. (This was long before the internet existed BTW.)

Anybody who plays Irish flute can pretty much pick up a whistle and play it due to the fingerings etc being more or less the same, and sooner or later they will end up with a whistle in their hands.

What I did have to learn was the rather different style most High Whistle players use, which involved rather more tonguing than most Irish flute players use. The whistle style came slowly to me, perhaps because I spent so little time playing whistle.

When Low Whistles came onto the scene, being a new instrument there was the question of how to approach it stylistically.

Should it be played as a flute? Or as a whistle? I myself float back and forth, but as I’ve played Low Whistle more and more (and stopped playing flute) my Low Whistle style has ended up in a middle ground between my flute style and my High Whistle style.

I’ve never thought that I know how to play the whistle particularly well. When I see YouTube performances by the great players like Orlaith McAuliffe, Mary Bergin or James Galway, I know that I CAN now be a good player and control the clarity and expressiveness, and I spend most of my time inventing new music, but have such a long way to go developing my speed, dexterity and all the types of ornaments, which I’m really drawn to.

Many moons ago I bought one of those black Walton “Guinness” whistles, got hold of a finger chart, learned the first two octaves and a few higher notes, and just went to a practice place and explored what sounds the instrument could make. From that I created a few tunes, based on the sound possibilities of the instrument, not any musical “style”. I by accident tried Generation whistles in D, high F and high G, and didn’t carry on with those at all. They were sold quickly. When I bought a Tony Dixon aluminum DX006 in high D, I realized what a really good whistle could do, and like with other instruments, getting an instrument that responds musically across it’s full range, makes a lot of difference in the playability, tone and odds of carrying on playing it.

A gentleman never tells…

That was me: flute first. TBH whistle terrified me for the longest time, because its very simplicity demands a special touch for the playing to sound really good. But eventually I got over it and was okay with being mediocre. :wink:

I think it’s not quite right to call flute and whistle interchangeable; there are things that work better on one than the other. I’d say they’re different enough to perhaps be called analogous.

I picked up a whistle because I was going to sessions as a singer and wanted to join in the tunes, too. Had some friends who were very, very patient as I learned my first few tunes, All-Ireland players who let me squeak away on Out on the Ocean and the Kesh again and again. Otherwise, I spent my time listening to them and to anyone else I could, whistle player or not. To be honest, I think this is far and away the most important thing you can do. There are some decent YouTube tutorials (and a lot of really terrible ones), some good books, and obviously a teacher will help your learning a great deal, but if you don’t internalize the feel of the music, you’ll always sound like a novice.

Eventually I got a flute, and spent much more time on that for many years. However, in the past year or so I’ve been spending a lot more time on the whistle. It’s always in my pocket, so it’s easy to play a few tunes here and there. As much as I love the flute, to be honest I just can’t get enough of the whistle! I’m sure others here will know what I mean…

I used to teach skiing, and we had a saying between us and the snowboarders, “skiing is easy to learn and hard to master, and snowboarding is the other way around.”

Anyone who has been up on a snowboard knows that the first lesson or six that you have on a snowboard, you’ll spend most of your time on your butt. The balance and everything is tough, and it takes a lot of practice to get good enough to make a few consecutive turns down a slope. That contrasted with skiing, where I could get a class of beginners doing basic turns down a bunny slope in the usual hour and a half’s time. However, once you got the basics in snowboarding down, you were essentially good to go, and just needed to refine them. With skiing, you get increasingly technical if you want to improve, and it can take a lot longer to get to a top level.

It’s not a perfect analogy, but I think there’s a bit of similarity with flute and whistle. With the flute, it’s tough to develop a good embouchure, but the reward is that once you have one, you have tons of control over your sound. You can alter dynamics and tone, use your breathing itself as a rhythmic device, and if your fingers are reasonably dextrous you’ll sound great. Yes, you won’t be Matt Molloy or Seamus Tansey just yet, but a decently competent flute player sounds, IMO, fairly good.

With a whistle, you can make a sound a heck of a lot easier than with a flute, and squawking out a tune within your first few minutes of picking it up is not out of the question. But man, making it sound like anything other than squawking is hard work! I’ve heard plenty of whistle players who can play loads of tunes at a good clip, have lots of ornaments at the ready, and still sound awful. You’ve got to know the music inside and out and have a feel for it to really make the whistle sing. True of any instrument, sure, but IMO the line between “incredible” and “unlistenable” with the whistle is a lot thinner.

@bigscotia
Those were some interesting thoughts. Because I did actually ski a lot for a few years and never got really good at it. lol. And the points you mentioned about flute vs whistle are more or less the reasons why I switched from whistle to flute (well, that and a longtime love affair with the flute and its sound since childhood).

Are you referring to the sound of the instrument, or the actual structure/feel of the music? As in, “They’ve got the music down, but the whistle sounds terrible” vs “their technique is okay, but it doesn’t sound like Irish music.”

Listening, listening, and more listening.

That’s a good way to approach it.

From my own playing experiences I am of the opinion that the Irish flute and High Whistle could be played in the same style.

In practice they usually aren’t.

It’s the usual “folk music process” where generations of players playing thousands of tunes evolve one or more styles for a particular instrument that maximise what that instrument does best and minimise that instrument’s weaknesses.

In Irish trad this process has evolved two rather different styles for Irish flute and Irish High Whistle.

I had always noticed this stylistic dichotomy, but when it most struck me was when a very good Irish High Whistle player, who played in what I think of as the (more or less) “classic” or “mainstream” style very similar to Mary Bergin, took up the Irish flute.

Seemingly from the moment he started playing the flute is was in a style completely different from his High Whistle style, and a style that I think of as the (more or less) “classic” or “mainstream” Irish flute style.

I had to go the other direction and figure out how to make my High Whistle playing sound appropriate, and not like my flute playing.

Both, really, but the latter more so than the former. They are very much intertwined, if you don’t have a feel for how to shape the tune your overall sound can suffer. The tone of the whistle can start sounding very dull and same-y, for lack of a better term, in a very grating way.

Both, really, but the latter more so than the former. They are very much intertwined, if you don’t have a feel for how to shape the tune your overall sound can suffer. The tone of the whistle can start sounding very dull and same-y, for lack of a better term, in a very grating way.

It’s probably the reason why I very rarely listen to clips posted on the internet.

A tune played well is like a conversation, the phrases giving the call and response, repeating statements with a slightly different flourish. It;s definitely not the stream of notes so often encountered, the few yards of reels as some may put it, with out lift or sense of direction and with total disregard of the internal rhtyhms of the tune or the function of ornaments. A sprinkling of ill placed cranns is usally a give away of the type of player. Being able to more or less hammer out an ornament is one thing, the sense of placing it well,appropriately and above all meaningfully. is obviously quite another. :swear:

Simplicity and clarity are things to strive for.

You just need to look for the right players. There is tons of clips by actual real players on youtube, not just dilettantic amateurs (like myself for instance :smiley: ). First stop for me is always youtube but I look for the right players. At the moment mostly flute, so I look for Orlaith McAuliffe, Brendan Mulholland, Matt Molloy, Harry Bradley, Conal O’Grada, Stephen Doherty and the likes.

A tune played well is like a conversation, the phrases giving the call and response, repeating statements with a slightly different flourish.

Thats’s an interesting analogy to blues music which I played on the guitar when I was younger (played in different bands at the time). Blues is very much in a call and response style, being derived from worksongs. That seems like a helpful analogy, which I will try to remember for my practice.

A sprinkling of ill placed cranns is usally a give away of the type of player.

Could you elaborate a bit on that? When would you consider a crann ill placed? At the moment for instance, I try to learn “the moving cloud” and the two versions I like best are, obviously Matt Molloy and the other one is from Orlaith McAuliffe, and if I hear it correctly, she uses a couple of cranns, where Molloy would play a roll for example. Yet another version is from Shannon Heaton and she uses less ornaments. Obviously the version by Orlaith McAuliffe is the most impressive due to its sheer virtuosity. Would you consider one being “more traditional” or just legit different versions of the tune?
https://youtu.be/FrFMUtYCTjE
https://youtu.be/SaaUoc-lrZc
https://youtu.be/7h_HfNsWU6U

Simplicity and clarity are things to strive for.

That’s what I like about Micho Russell.

Edited to add that the exception to my general avoidance of online listening is Kenny/Douglas Hadden’s channel on YouTube, and some other archival recordings. Kenny’s channel is GOLD.

Here are my observations as a US player with varying (and somewhat limited) degrees of access to established ITM communities. Again, these are just observations based on my experiences, so they may not be representative of the broader community.

I was lucky enough to learn directly from a skilled player with consistent lessons, and also some very valuable group lessons at various events and camps. Before that, I did develop the fundamentals on my own, using Gray Larson’s book for reference (I like his analysis and way of looking at the embellishments, but his tune settings are… special, to say the least). In my opinion, there is no substitute for hearing the nuances and techniques firsthand, and being able to ask an instructor to repeat, slow down, or explain the things that stand out.

To me, the greatest challenge in learning whistle remotely, outside of Ireland, is understanding the “point” of the embellishments, melodic variations, and rhythm, and it’s something I spend a lot of time on, both myself and with the few students of my own. Technique is something that can always be improved, but understanding the motivation for why something is played a certain way takes time, and vastly more should be spent listening to field recordings and live players than me blathering. The internet is a fantastic resource for learning tunes, discussing the history behind them, and sharing favorite settings, but I encourage my students to limit their time browsing until they have a good grasp of the aforementioned “point.” Understanding the personal, regional, and national relationships with the music is important, since we don’t just get to absorb these things in the US the way they are omnipresent in Ireland. Often some of my favorite recordings are not of players on RTE, but just “somebody’s dad” having a tune in the kitchen after work, and I try to prompt observations about how they are playing and what they are trying to express, and considering where they live, who they are, and what they have to work with. As I am neither Irish nor in a trad hotspot like New York or Chicago, my lessons take a very Socratic approach and are more about sharing observations than making declarative statements.

A point I find one has to hammer home outside of Ireland is that “getting” the music (the “nyah” as some call it) is far and away more important than technique. Many of the players we hail as greats today were just normal people with day jobs, and their technique wasn’t necessarily fantastic by All-Ireland standards*. This is often a really new concept to people who are used to musicians with name recognition being technical experts as well as artists. I encourage a “feel it first, play it second,” approach, as my experience has been that “if you know what you want to hear with enough specificity, your fingers will figure out how to get there.” That’s not to say I neglect technique, but again US musicians are often expecting they have to master all the embellishments and whatnot before getting to engage with the artistry, which can be a very discouraging assumption. The comment about an “ill-placed sprinkling of cranns” is particularly apt, as I often have to remind students to sing the tune and see for themselves whether a “dum-diddle-dum” flows naturally or not.

Playing in a session could be a whole class of its own, and getting western classically-educated musicians to differentiate between “conversation” and “performance” can be challenging. The amount of tunes in the US session repertoire that are specific album versions also makes this difficult - album playing is of course very different than session playing, and I think many of us are familiar with the excruciating experience of starting a tune in a certain style or tempo and having the session road-haul you with the version they know. Understanding that a single well-known player’s interpretation of the music may not be representative of the broader community is really important, and I strongly feel the level of hero-worship US players place upon certain musicians is counterproductive to understanding the broader role of the music in the community.

Far and away the hardest and most frustrating people to teach in my experience have been old American hippies. There is this weird attitude among that generation that I think makes it difficult for them to really engage with the music, and the people behind it. Maybe it stems from the Flower Child mindset that “everyone’s contribution is of equal value,” or something? Certainly, many never really seem to accept that their idle strumming is not of the same artistic value (to the broader community) as a skilled and trad-immersed player, and become defensive if asked to play more quietly or to make room at the table for a more skilled player. There seems to be this idea that performative displays of humility entitle them to invade any space or community; i.e. not understanding that there are places where their presence (or hell, mine for that matter) might be inappropriate, or that no amount of “humbling one’s self” will absolve them of the responsibility to strive for improvement and good taste. Whatever is behind it, to me it reads as this weird self-flagellating type of egotism. There are people that have been playing for decades who have not improved a single bit, yet still get all passive-aggressive at the gentlest reminders of expected behavior. God knows I’ve made my own share of session faux pas, and I still cringe at the memory of some very stupid misunderstandings on my part, but I have done my best to learn from them.

Anyway, I’m sorry - this turned into quite a wall of text. Am I a misanthropic asshole? (somewhat) Am I falling into the same “who am I to say this” area as those I discuss? (maybe) I’m curious what other US players’ experiences have been, and how those living in Ireland view them compared to domestic players.

*the effect of the All-Ireland championship on flute/whistle playing (in my opinion, contributing to the erasure of regional styles) is a whole other topic…

And it’s the sound, isn’t it. “Appropriate” is subjective, but at the same time it’s somehow indisputable.

[Inserting here the probably unnecessary reminder that this sidetrack also comes from the traditional Irish/Scottish styles perspective]

oof, I feel this. I became a MUCH poorer whistle player after going whole-hog into flute for a few years. Had to rebuild my playing from the ground up.