I was whistling the other day and at the same time thinking about the soundtrack to the movie Braveheart. I love that soundtrack! Remember the whistling on Braveheart, the very rapid vibrato that made the music sound so beautiful, so ancient, so steeped in time and tradition?
Well, I thought, (I am going somewhere with this) “How could anybody use finger vibrato that fast, and make it sound good?”
…because I had tried it, and it sounded like something from a carnival.
Well, suddenly I just tried doing it with my throat, and it seemed to come out perfectly! It was tiring for my throat muscles, but they could adapt, right?
So, my questions for you experienced whistlers and Irish music students are:
Is this kind of vibrato traditional and desirable?
Is it really accomplished with the fingers, or is it throat vibrato?
And, should it be used only on airs?
Finger and throat vibrato are both used in all sorts of music. I have even just wiggled my whistle to get some variation. I think whatever works best for you or the situation should be used.
I concur with MTGuru, so, no throat vibrato in ITM please.
It is not the done thing I’m afraid and there will probably be others ready to pounce and point out a myriad of famous players who use throat vibrato. That doesn’t mean it is right though, no matter how ‘good’ someone might think it sounds.
I personally cringe when I hear flute and whistle players use throat vibrato on slow pieces.
The only vibrato I use is ‘finger’ vibrato. If I was holding a long G I would place my R2 finger close to the side of the E hole and move it close to the hole and away again without actually touching the E hole itself. The reason I don’t try it on the F# hole is that it makes a drop in pitch rather like a warble rather that a vibrato sound. Does that make sense?
What this does is disrupt the air flowing out without sounding the note itself.
I really liked the theme tune to Braveheart when I first saw the movie. I played in a (Celtic) band who were asked to play the theme at a wedding. That was fine but I had three days to learn to play it on a low D whistle. I succeeded and it sounded fantastic, it was so good that the groom told me he was crying as he and his bride to be walked down the aisle as we played it.
On another point, did you know that the pipes playing in most of the sound track are Irish pipes?
I wish I had a dollar for every person that said they loved the ‘Scottish’ bagpipes on Braveheart!!
THANKS, MT Guru and Celi Whistle Man!!
Actually, your replies are a relief since it is difficult to keep that kind of fast throat vibrato going. And if it had been traditional, I would have felt compelled to do it since I had found out how. It was, however, gratifying to even be able to produce that sound that I heard on a professional recording. And, since it sounds (to me) so ancient and mournful, I will sometimes use it on airs (when there are no IT witnesses around, that is)!
Throat vibrato, diaphragm vibrato, and finger vibrato are all merely techniques which can be used to good effect by traditional players, or mis-used by people not fluent in the style.
My first teacher, a flute/low whistle player, used finger vibrato on all the notes it is possible on, but on bottom and middle D would use a rapid throat vibrato which sounded pretty much identical to his finger vibrato.
When learning to play the various sizes of Andean panpipes I learned to mimick the native players who use a rapid throat vibrato on the high-pitched panpipes and a slow rythmic diaphragm vibrato (in time with the pulse of the tune) on the huge bass panpipes.
I myself, possibly due to this and possibly not, will on occasion use the rapid throat vibrato on a high A or high B which I really want to sing out, though these are notes that I usually would play finger vibrato on. And, rarely, I will use the broad pulsing diaphragm vibrato on bottom D on my low whistle. Why? To me it just sounds more fitting than a rapid vibrato there.
Many if not most Irish folksingers use that rapid but shallow throat vibrato, so applying it to whistle is, I feel, within the tradition.
I’ve never been one to follow tradition. If it sounds good and is pleasing to you then by all means do it! Part of the fun(for me) in playing whistle is doing things my own way. But I’ve always run against the grain.
Maybe I listened to the wrong link on the above attached Braveheart sound sample, but that sounded very much like a pan pipe to me. ?
I admit that I use diaphram vibrato as that is all that I was taught coming from the boehm flute. I tried a finger vibrato on my whistle, and still try from time to time, but just couldn’t get it to soud as fluid as I could a diaphram vibrato.
I watched a documentary a few years ago on TV that was all about the voice and sound and how it is formed and transmitted, and why we can talk and animals can’t. One interesting point that came up in the program was the fact that we cannot use our diaphragm to control vibrato when we sing. Our diaphragm contracts to draw air into our lungs and then relaxes as we exhale. We use our chest muscles to completely collapse our lungs, not the diaphragm. We create vibrato by controlling our throat muscles.
I can remember clearly on the program that they had an actor who was playing a pompous looking music teacher who was standing very deliberately upright and stiff with her hand on her stomach berating the poor student with the comment ‘Diaphragm, my dear child, use your diaphragm!’. The program went on to explain why what the music teacher was saying was is in fact wrong.
I personally think that the two systems (diaphragm/throat) work in tandem. The diaphragm cannot physically create any useful sound, it is used to draw air in, although we can make a rasping sound as the air passes our vocal chords on the way in.
I think the ‘broad pulsing diaphragm vibrato’ pancelticpiper talks about is not the diaphragm alone being used to create this but the throat muscles being more relaxed and a combination of contraction and relaxation of the diaphragm.
I just thought I would pass that on as a side debate.
riverman, if you would like to hear a little snippet of me playing using finger vibrato on a slow air, drop me a pm and I will send it to you.
I have not played this tune for a long time, I had one try at it so it is raw and un-doctored.
I would like to add a related comment to this thread… Besides vibrato, what about the electronically added reverb on contemperary whistle music such as Joanie Madden’s “song of the Irish Whistle”. Surely the reverb isn’t traditional, but the music is still quite pleasant just the same. I would agree that there are many settings where playing in a historically accurate style is part of the charm of the music. (ie: an Irish style session). I would also have to agree with Flogging Jason though that if you like the way something sounds with vibrato, than there is nothing wrong with playing it that way. This is especially true if playing for your own enjoyment or if you’re in an untraditional setting.
Yeah, I’d say that reverb is so much part of what the public expects of modern/commercial irish music (for the whistle, or especially for the whistle), - even if they don’t realise it - that there is no reason not to do it. I don’t think I’ve heard a professional recording that hasn’t used it to some degree.
I play in my bathroom all the time just to get the reverb sound! (when there’s no one home of course)
Of course it too has a time and place. Don’t overdo it!
Nancy Toff, in The Flute Book, writes:
“As in breathing in general, diaphragm vibrato is misnamed, or at least only partially named, because it involves both the diaphragm and abdominal wall muscles. Diaphragm vibrato, then, is produced by the isometric action of the abdominal muscles and diaphragm pushing against each other.”
But she, like most flute teachers, call it “diaphragm vibrato” out of convenience.
I read somewhere else- I can’t remember where- that the so-called diaphragm vibrato was actually produced by the “intracostal” (sp?) muscles.
Toff, like most flute teachers, disdains throat vibrato, which they consider not only incorrect but actually dangerous. They call it “billy goat” vibrato. Imagine my surprise when a trained opera singer told me that his operatic vibrato was done with the throat.
It does take practice to get throat vibrato under control so that it is consistent and subtle.
Thanks, all, including Idawhoa (sorry I missed you before).
Personally, I really like diaphram (including throat) vibrato, because my fingers have enough to do. Besides, I have tried all the techniques I’ve read here on finger vibrato (half-holing, using the second tone hole below, waving a finger over the lower hole) and it all sounds to me like “calliope vibrato!” (that is, as I can play it)
Diaphram vibrato is very smooth.
I personally dislike listening to singing with very fast vibrato–it sounds nervous to me. But the very vast vibrato on whistle (actually, Romanian pan pipe in Braveheart ) attracted me.
But it’s a lot of work; I wouldn’t want to use it all the time. I think it might also make listeners nervous!
Is it traditional in our music? Maybe. I’ve never met anyone yet who can show me proof that it wasn’t performed down the ages on the flute or whistle.
Some of the things that are not traditional in our music are low whistles, the manner in which whistles are manufactured, the way the music is mechanically and digitally altered, recording the music and sharing it over the internet, television and radio. And some of the tunes are questionable as to their exact pedigree. Some even argue that O’Carolan’s music, though it is beautiful and he was Irish, is not Irish in the tradtional sense. His work was influenced during his travels around the continent.
Does this all mean that none of these things should be done? I guess that’s a personal choice. My Dad taught me there is something to be said about tradition. But my Dad also used to say that you have to be willing to change with the times unless you are big enough to change the times.
It seems to me that you’re making a bit of a mistake, trying a little finger vibrato and deciding that, because it sounds bad, you won’t do it. It’s like ornamentation - it takes time to develop good finger vibrato technique and get it sounding right. If you decided that, say, cuts sound bad early on when you’re not able to do them properly, and so you never bothered to learn them properly, you’d be missing one of the basics. It’s essentially the same here. It’s something you have to work at, if you want to be able to make it sound good.
Finger vibrato is traditional because much of whistle playing mimics the pipes, and on the uilleann pipes, the only way to get vibrato is with finger vibrato (or are they able to do it with the bag, too? In any case, we can’t mimic that). However, I don’t think that limiting OUR instrument to the capabilities of another instrument just because it’s what everybody says is traditional isn’t doing our instrument justice. I don’t object to people using throat/diaphragm vibrato, as long as it’s well done and well placed.
Which brings me to my final point: any vibrato should be used sparingly, in my opinion. If you play an entire tune, whether dance tune or slow air, and have vibrato on every note, I don’t think it sounds very good. Vibrato should be used on a few notes here and there, to accentuate the emotion of the tune.
there seem to be two sort of whistlers as I can see on the board, the traditional whistlers and the progressive whistlers. The traditionals say respect tradition, there’s one way of playing a tune, the progressive whistlers seek for new ways to play and do things that do not occur in traditional playing (like the triplet playing of Brian Finnigan). It’s, I think, not a question of right or wrong, it’s the of creating music, in either way.
) attracted me.