The item is described as “VINTAGE WOOD KOHLERT GRASLITZ FLUTE PICCOLO RARE MEYER”.
I did some searching here on C&F and found a thread which warned of “Meyer” flutes having some sort of strange non-simple system tuning, possible whole-tone scaled. Apparently there are flutes made by the “Meyer” company (Nach Meyer?), and there are flutes which claim to be “Meyer system”.
Can anyone tell by the photos/description of this item on ebay, whether this flute is one I want (simple system, keyed)?
I have until noon tomorrow (US EDT) to offer the seller my high bid for the item.
TIA for your collective wisdom!
I have no idea why Meyer is in there. Meyer were a German manufacturer of decent instruments. They licensed their design to other (generally no-name) manufacturers, who made the “nach Meyer” instruments. I don’t think Kohlert was one of these. This piccolo doesn’t look anything like our nach Meyer piccolo – the keys are entirely different.
There’s nothing funny about Meyers’ tuning. It’s approximate by modern standards, just as many simple-system flutes were 100 years ago. Our nach Meyer piccolo has absolutely wonderful sound – it has an ivory head. We also have a flute; it’s nothing special. That pretty much sums up Meyers AFAIK – there are some that are soso, but the occasional really wonderful instrument. That’s supposed to be true both of real and nach Meyers.
In the late 19th - early 20th centuries people often spoke of a “Meyer system,” which means nothing more than simple system, with the typical characteristics of German flutes of the time - smallish toneholes, perhaps thicker walls, often an ivory headjoint. These flutes have a “thicker,” “darker” sound than the usual English flute, but can be excellent instruments in their own right - they have a different sound, is all. I’ve read that some were louder than you’d expect, even though the toneholes remained on the small side.
I have various German flutes which are excellent players, in good tune and easy to blow. Koehlert was said to be the no. 2 Bassoon maker of the times, after Heckel, so that should tell you something about the quality of their work.
I would hazard a guess that this Ebay seller, despite shipping from Bloomington, Illinois, isin’t a native English speaker: “FINISH: FINISH IS GOOD CONDITION OVERALL ,AND IS THE HOLEWAYS AND KEYS”
monkey587 claims to have been playing a “Meyer” flute with a weird whole tone scale.
Is it possible in this case that the cork was way out of whack?
There was no sense of resolution in that thread. I just want to make sure if I drop $100 on this beauty that I’m not getting something unplayable, or un-restorable. Obviously, these are the chances we take with ebay, are they not?
In my opinion, no Meyer system flute never had such a scale. The flute discussed in this thread was probably a Frankenflute
BTW, be careful: there is no “Kohlert Graslitz” in my NLI. It speaks about several “Köhler” in Graslitz at the end of 19c, specializing in brass instruments. They probably made some flutes too…
It’s focused on the Kohlert as a bassoon maker but may be of interest to you as well.
I have a 12 key Kohlert concert pitch flute in “LP” standing for low-pitch (i.e.~ A440) It plays pretty well, though there are some tuning minor inaccuracies and it is loud for a small-hole german style flute, but it’s still a small holed instrument.
I wish I could give you some advice. Ebay is a little sketchy when it comes to buying things that are the real deal. From a web site, though…
The term “Meyer system” or “Meyer model” flute became common in the late 19th century, probably in part to have a name better than “ordinary flute” to distinguish it from the “Boehm flute”. These terms were not used for the most inexpensive flutes, but came to mean almost any German-style simple system flute with eight or nine or more keys. One can see “genuine Meyer model” flutes offered by Sears, Robuck & Co., and “System Meyer” flutes by G. & A. Klemm, on the catalogs page. The term “Meyer system” is unfortunate and should be avoided, because Meyer did not originate the system represented by these flutes (at least as the English word “system” is understood by flutists today). “Meyer model” or “nach Meyer” are acceptable, if the instrument really is similar to Meyer’s flutes.
I have one by this company with 11 keys (yes, really) that I got at an auction for $50. I could have gotten it for $30, but there was a woman bidding against me who wanted to use it for decoration for a restaurant. Thankfully, when word made it across the room that I knew how to play it, she stopped bidding, as there were also lots of flute parts that would have done her just as good. Mine is 4 pieces – headjoint, barrel, left hand, and right hand/foot combined. The bottom joint has a crack in it; I tried to glue it together, but did not do a very good job, because I don’t know how to do it right. But for $50…
It’s ok, but not fabulous. The sound is covered, but not especially dark. Like Pelham said, the tuning tends to be off a little bit, but it is definitely not some kind of strange scale, and not nearly as bad as the Pakistani flute that a guy in our session bought. I played it in our local sessions for a couple of years, and nobody complained. Now that I am a better player, it sounds better And I tried it with my Sweetheart FP headjoint and it is even better. I think that you probably got $100 worth of flute. But I am not an expert by any means!
I just got my Kohlert piccolo. It’s way tiny! The finger holes are real small as well, and it needs a good cleaning, oiling and polishing. I just tried playing it in my car, and it’s real fuzzy sounding on the low notes - obviously leaky pads. I squeeze all the pads shut, then the low notes sound OK, but not for long. The embouchure is almost round, and I’m not finding much focus yet (what do you want for a half hour? ). I’m hoping I can justify the $ I spent, but since I’ve already played a couple of tunes on it (though I’m super clumsy on this tiny thing), I figure I’m better off than some new ebay flute owners. Big prob though, I fear: I think it’s tuned to A-455. I have some tuner software on my laptop, which is how I got that, but it’s a very hokey interface and I’d rather just use a strobe to be sure. Also, the octaves are not very well in tune I fear. Could be my embouchure or the cork placement, right?
I’m rambing on my picc 'cause I don’t want to get back to work yet, but I must.
P.S. Any experts out there have catalog info for a Kohlert D-piccolo? I can give a serial number too.
There is a barrel, which is either “frozen” to the headjoint, or indeed part of it. The layout of the case leads me to believe the latter - and I don’t intend to pull too hard on it just yet, until someone can convince me that this is supposed to be a three-piece piccolo.
My instructor has a three-piece baroque piccolo. When I saw the case (which was in a ziplock sandwich bag) I didn’t even think that there would be a piccolo inside. I then looked at my fife and thought that it looked like a monster (comparatively). I was going to comment on half holing such a small thing, but it has keys.
