Generations: Brass vs Nickel

Is there a big (if any) difference?

Hi, Mason.

Not a big difference, and sometimes not a noticeable difference at all. And there are typically bigger differences between two individual Generation whistles due to the variability of the whistleheads themselves.

However, what difference there may be tends towards the nickel ones being a little brighter and the brass ones being a little warmer sounding, if that makes sense.

Also, some people find the nickel surface to be slippery to hold compared to the lacquered brass, though this doesn’t come up a lot.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Excellent description, Jerry. Also, I find the brass lacquer wears off very quickly under my fingers, resulting in that lovely psoriasis effect. So you either live with it or strip it with acetone. One of the reasons I prefer nickel.

Has anyone here ever worn off the nickel plating down to the brass below? I’ve wondered how long that takes.

Reg

Yes! My oldest nickel Gen tube - vintage 1978 - has brass patches around the fingerholes and under the thumbs. But it actually looks kind of cool when you polish it.

Thanks to all - that helps!

No. Why would there be? Most new players will find both equally difficult to control.

I sat with Kevin Crawford for about an hour last Saturday night while he picked through a selection of tweaked whistles. Invariably he went for the tweaked brass Generations over the nickel.

We had exactly the same conversation, and a little warmer vs a little brighter, if noticeable at all, was the conclusion.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Keeping in mind that the best players are as susceptible as the rest of us humans to the possible color-tone illusion. :wink:

Perhaps it’s not even just the look that makes people interpret the sound different but also the feel of the material?

Curious how they compare on a recording. But seeing as people say they’re all a bit different anyway it’s hard to do that. One would have to record a tune on a dozen of each and then have a panel of listeners pick the best three or so out of those. And in order to do the recordings real fair you’d need a robot to play the tune exactly the same all 24 times. So if anyone with robot building skills and a lot of time on their hands does the recordings I’ll volunteer to be on the panel.

That said, I’ve some brass Generation whistles in some various keys and a nickel one. Thought I’d try one of those, and I didn’t like it. Liked the look, but didn’t like how it sounded. It was like there was a bit of sound missing I think is the best way to describe it.

Perhaps, but I wouldn’t be too quick to discount it.

I’ve watched on numerous occasions where an outstanding player went through several whistles that were visually identical and so similar in playing characteristics that I couldn’t tell one from another, then systematically sort through to narrow down to two or three, then two, then one. I’ve seen them lose track and then find the one they had picked out before.

I’m curious enough about this to make a little experiment to investigate further, but I’ve no reason to suspect it’s due to some sort of placebo effect.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Tweaked? All bets are off.

And why would this matter?

I have no doubt in the ability of an “outstanding player” to discriminate between apparently identical instruments. But when players, no matter how outstanding, speculate (and they are just speculations) the reasons for those differences, that just doesn’t wash. Testing a whistle by playing it is just a form of black box testing.

Because your variables are no longer isolated which puts any hypothesis of causality into doubt. Particularly in this case, a tweak is meant to specifically alter tone and/or playing characteristics. Is it the tweak or the body material (brass vs nickel)? Who can really know for sure?

That may well be , however, considering that stock, untweaked generations are each different, then I’m not so sure. It goes back to the the chicken-and-egg-ish question of the significance of the material the instrument is made of. The internal texture alone of a nickel-plated brass tube vs non-plated, as well as the miniscule amount of ID difference in the plated/unplated may well be enough to make the timbre distinctive to any given player.

If the auditioning party were to try said tweaked (or untweaked for that matter) mouthpiece on various tubes for comparison, then this might prove more interesting - but given the subject, certainly not conclusive as I don’t think there are conclusions to be drawn. Or are there…?

I’m one of those folks that find the nickel slippery to hold…it’s really distracting to me, because i always feel like I’m going to drop the whistle.

A length of cellophane tape down the back of the whistle solves this for many people.

Best wishes,
Jerry

I have tried the same head on a brass tube, and the same head on a nickel plated brass tube and could not hear any difference. It would be interesting to set up a blind fold panel of listeners (or just with backs turned so they could not see the tone tubes) then with one Generation head and the two tone tubes. The player would play the same tune with the one head, and only changing the tone tubes. Might be best if the player was unbiased as to the tubes sounding different.

Slim chance of finding anyone like that 'round these parts. :laughing:

Jerry, I like the tape idea for chrome tubes. I used two spots of clear nail polish (where the thumbs go). It works well, and doesn’t show much.

It’s also worth mentioning that a whistle sounds very different to the person playing than the person listening to it played. The difference may be one of those things that the player hears more clearly but doesn’t show up as much to anyone else. Some amounts/kinds of breathiness are like that.

Best wishes,
Jerry