I’ve done more research, mainly listening to youtube videos of other whistle players and I see/hear a lot playing Generation and they’re not that bad. So I’ve been playing my high F Generation nickel whistle more and more now that it’s slower to being in tune.
I’ve noticed that I really have trouble playing the low F. I have to really cut down the volume to play it. Almost barely breathe into it. The other notes I can do much easier. It’s a challenge for me because I blow much harder for my other instruments.
Is this normal? Is it because it’s a bad whistle? Is it because it’s a high F? If I get another brand will I be able to blow harder? I’m still planning on getting a High D & Alto G. Still not sure which brand/model.
I lost my microphone (I think it might have been stolen as a big microphone with 15’ cable doesn’t get lost easily) so I can’t make any recordings, my webcam doesn’t record well. That’s another thing on my list.
One more question for you all: When you play other keys, do you have to memorize the holes for each key?
For example if you play a G whistle do you think of all holes covered as D or as G?
I was thinking if I transpose the music I could play it as if I were playing a D whistle even though I’d be playing another key like G. I hope that makes sense. For example, on a saxophone all the saxes have the same names for the fingerings. All the keys down are D (just like the D whistle). Even if you go from bariton, alto, or soprano it’s called D, even though they all play different pitches. This makes it really easy to play different saxophones (although the embouchure is very different for each one). I’m wondering how it works for whistles. for now I’ve just been playing my F as if it were a D since I’m playing alone.
Just as you described with saxophones, whistle notes are typically called out as if they are on a D whistle, regardless of actual key.
Also, cutting the volume to play the bell note of a whistle is (to an extent) a natural part of the physics of the instrument. It does take practice and finesse to achieve when you’re not used to it. There are things you can do with your embouchure that can affect the tone so that it’s not too wimpy (such as opening up your jaw behind the pursed lips). Generally the smaller the whistle the less air velocity it will withstand (unless it is designed with backpressure as a characteristic) and the softer you’ll need to blow.
For the most part I just play a tune I know on a different whistle without figuring out what the notes are for the key I’m in.
But if I’m playing with someone on say harp or fiddle, and we’re playing in F and I’m on a Bb whistle, they’re not going to give me notes in terms of a D whistle.
I’ve been spending a lot of time practicing. My work is pretty boring, I work at home and spend a lot of time waiting. So I’ve been practicing while waiting. It keeps me occupied. I’m also learning a lot about Irish music.
My Generation F seems to have its C out of tune. The only way I can get it in tune is to half close the B hole. I practiced it and actually got pretty good at it. But it’s just too high pitched for my taste.
I did tons of googling and watching youtube videos and I ended up ordering a high D & alto G from Guido. The Alto G’s are expensive (except for the cheaper Dixon Polymer) and I figure I’ll start with the Guido whistles and then if I stick to it and progress I can get a better whistle if I need to (and maybe I won’t need to).
I’ll post an update when I get the Guidos. If I didn’t get the Guido then my next choice was the Dixon Trad for the High D and the Dixon polymer for the Log G. I really like my Gminor native american flute, the pitch is perfect, so I think I’m really going to love the Alto G which will be the same pitch.
Yes, that’s one way, called “half-holing” the C-natural. But if you blow more lightly when you play C-nat, you may find the standard oxxooo fingering works fine. Also try the fingering oxxxox, which is another common C-nat fingering, slightly lower pitched.
HP: First, whistles in keys other than D are far more commonly treated as transposing instruments, with the D whistle fingering convention applied to all. And it’s crystal clear that’s what the OP means in describing the half-holed fingering.
Second, xxxooo fingering on an F whistle produces a concert pitch of Bb, not C natural.
Yes, taping is a way to adjust intonation. But in the case of C-nat, taping the #1 hole is likely to flatten the tuning of the C#, which is equally bad. A far better solution is to either half-hole, or use the cross-fingering that gives the best result for the particular whistle.
Sorry if I confused anyone. Someone confirmed that the whistle is treated as a transposing instrument like the saxophone, so like with the saxophone, I just imagine myself playing a D whistle.
This is why I ordered a High D. I prefer the sound of the Low G but if I want to play along with books & tutorials then I need to play in D. So I’ll do my learning & tutorials in D, but when I play on my own I’ll play it on the Alto G. For my own compositions, I can write it in G and then transpose it for the G whistle so that the notes are in D. With Sibelius it’s easy to do this.
I’m reading “The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle” and so far it’s excellent. I really like what he has to say about classical musicians “letting go” to learn & play Irish Music. It’s really helping me to understand this type of music.
I tried those other fingerings and they were out of tune but half holing the B makes it almost perfect. At first it was hard but with practice it’s easy to do. I learned that from watching this very good video on the whistle:
Again, half-holing is a good skill to have. Not only for C-natural, but for other notes that are outside the diatonic scale: Eb, F-natural, G#, etc.
If the fingering oxxxox is out of tune on your Gen F whistle, then you are blowing MUCH TOO HARD. You have to blow more softly, on that note and in general. This is a very common problem for beginners (it’s the same problem you had playing the low F note). I’ve tried many Generation whistles, and they give good intonation with the oxxxox cross-fingering.
So why use oxxxox if you can half-hole? Because half-holing is sometimes quite limited. You cannot sound the note separately when going to or from a lower note unless you tongue it or accept the slurred sound. And you will encounter musical phrases that are awkward to play with the half-hole, but easy with the cross-fingering. When top players like Mary Bergin play these phrases, they sometimes modify the melody to work around the half-hole or avoid the note.
The whistle in that Erik the Flutemaker video is processed with reverb and perhaps other effects, so it is difficult to know what it would sound like in person.
If you’re interested in Irish music in particular, keep in mind that Erik’s playing in the video is not authentically Irish, with the heavy breath vibrato and tonguing. There are far better examples you can find.
I thought I’d update the thread regarding my adventure. I’ve been playing 30-60 minutes a day and I think I’m doing better. I guess I’m learning the subtle points with my Generation and can play it better. I squeak less that’s for sure.
I just discovered flutini and so I played a few tunes to try it out. Here’s the results:
this matches my experience with the tuner in that the D#/Eb (finger C natural on a D whistle 0xx 000) is way off. doing 0xx x0x doesn’t make much of a difference. Half-holing B will get it more in tune but I can’t always do that as some note combinations make it hard to do.
Is this anything I can correct myself? Could this be the particular whistle I’m playing? Is 23 cents enough to worry about?
I have a Guido High D and Alto G on the way and this will give me something to compare with. I plan to play them for a while to get a feel for them before ordering anything else. I really don’t plan on playing the F any more once I get a decent D whistle so this tuning stuff is more out of curiosity.
PS: Except for the bottom two in the list, the rest were pretty good IMHO.
So I guess I just have to learn to blow less hard on this note to make it flat. Would this be necessary on all whistles, all generation high F’s, or just my particular one? If I learn to blow less hard on this one then if I play another whistle I’d be making it flat.
Stating the obvious but apparently it is not taken into account no decent piper will use one and the same C natural all the time. C natural is a note that needs to be humoured, tuned into the drones, tuned into the regulator chords and pitched as required by the tune at hand.
He is of course talking about a chanter in D but it applies I believe to this conversation and is a very good reason to learn to half hole well.
Also - earlier today I checked my Gen D and OXX XOX does work with a little less breath. One can also add a little tape to lower the C# (becoming a more just intonationC#) which will in turn lower even more the Cnat - then OXX OOO becomes usable and OXX XOO and OXX XOX are slightly flatter alternatives. All this of refers to a D whistle but probably applies to an F - I do not own an F to test and probably could not play it due to the closeness of the holes.
Note that the Gen Eb and Bb whistles (at least the ones I own) both have usable OXX OOO fingerings ‘out of the box’ and both have flatter sevenths ( OOO OOO ) and IMHO are both much nicer whistles than the D
I now use mostly half holed Cnat - just occasionally using a cross fingering when it works better, you have to make a commitment to it and practice and technique matters.
Thanks for taking the time to explain it that way. It makes sense that one would finger C natural differently depending on the surrounding notes. Yesterday I discovered for myself that if playing high D I could go to C natural just by lifting one finger (middle on the bottom, making a piper’s C nat). That was a cool discovery.
I’ve also found that when slurring if I go B → C then it slides from the B to the C. I’m not sure there’s a way around that. I’m still discovering and learning as I go.
My current focus is to blow less hard on that note. Fortunately it’s not a note that is often held, it’s mostly a passing note.
flutini is really nifty. I never heard of it before.
I turned it on, and checked all my whistles. By default, it’s set to equal temperament.
All my generation whistles made graphs similar to yours, with the oxxooo note being sharp (and oxxoxo being an identical pitch), except for the C which was pretty wonky.
I switched it to just D and tried again. My Freeman Mellow Dog was the winner. Clarke Meg did well, and Clarke original wasn’t too bad. You can write down all the just offsets and transpose them to other keys. To test an F whistle, just start with the F at 0 and type all the number in the same sequence as they were for D.
My Susato whistle, interestingly, was very in tune on the ET setting, which is probably another reason it’s my least favorite.
