I came across a vase containing a number of very dusty whistles in a piano and woodwind shop yesterday (an odd brown Susato High D among them). I bought purchased three nickel Generation Bb’s for a very modest £15.00 and apart from a very brief toot sat in my car they remain unplayed (and will so until I’m back home next week) Are these generally okay ‘off the shelf’ or do the heads need the ‘putty’ treatment or any other minor ‘tweaks’ to get the best from them?
Also can the Generation transfer be removed with solvent (acetone perhaps)?
Finally I seem to recall reading (possibly on here) that the key of Bb isn’t a ‘piercing’ or doesn’t ‘carry so far’ and is therefore more neighbour friendly, is this the case or has my recollection failed me?
I suppose whether or not you prefer to alter a whistle depends on what you want. I, for one, think the back fill on most whistles does not make one iota of difference for the playability but dulls the tone (and not in a good way), others will swear you can’t play a whistle without it. I’ll admit I have backfilled one Feadóg because it improved the tone (but not the playability) but don’t like it on Generation or (older model) Oak.
Begin to take the whistles as you find them, they should, in average, play well enough as is (do move the head to its sweet spot). If you want them to be something else, you can always make alterations and change them later on.
In my experience off-the-shelf Generation Bb and C whistles need less ‘tweaking’ than Generation Ds. Some are great just the way they are. You might have a bit of a treasure trove there.
About the Susato, back in the early days Susatos were made completely differently than they are now. They only came in white or brown (or the two colours combined) and were machined from PVC pipe and had a wooden block. Each was entirely hand made, no injection moulding.
You might want to go back and get that Susato. It might be very good. I had a high D, mezzo A, and mezzo G that I got around 1980. The D was all white, the G all brown, and the A was brown with a white head. The A was an especially sweet player. These were not tunable. A friend had a Low D from the same period which was the only one of that sort I’ve seen that’s made in two pieces and tunable.
About packing the heads, all my old (c1980) Generations and Feadogs have had that done. I feel that all have been improved by this. I have played a couple off-the-shelf Generations which had good octaves as they were and wouldn’t need to have this done. (Packing the head helps raise the common flat 2nd octave.)
I didn’t look too closely at the Susato Richard, but I think it was two piece and (could be wrong here) had a block made of the same material as the body? I did have a black ‘S’ Bore High D for a short time, but didn’t like it one bit I’m afraid, I appreciate your advice but I wouldn’t risk buying another (seller prohibited ‘testing’ hence buying all three Generation Bb’s)
At some point I may pack the head of one of the Generations and alternate it with a non packed one to see which (if any) I prefer.
Forgive what may seem (no doubts is) a silly question but does one need to reconsider the fingering designations with the Bb (or any key other than D for that matter)? I’ve only played D whistles thus far (a number of High’s and one Low) so XXXXXX = D, XXXXXO = E, XXXXOO = F# etc. Would it now be expedient to consider XXXXXX = Bb, XXXXXO = C, XXXXOO = D etc?
The difficulty with that is that you might “pack” a good one and compare it to an “unpacked” bad one or vice-versa. You might do better playing one until you know it well, then packing it and playing it again. If you don’t like it, the process can always be reversed.
It’s not uncommon (depending on the background of the person you’re talking to) to always refer to the notes of the scale as if the instrument is in D, regardless of the actual key it is in, refer to the bell note as ‘bottom D’ for example, and so on.
Actually no, that’s not the way it works for most.
Most players will treat a Bb whistle as a transposing instrument relative to the D whistle as concert pitch. So expediently, just continue to label and consider your notes and fingerings as before (as on a D whistle), but be aware the the instrument is transposing everything down a major 3rd.
Of course, it’s perfectly fine to know the actual concert pitch notes you’re playing. But the transposing concept eliminates the need to memorize a parallel set of scales/notes/fingerings for every possible whistle key.
I beg to differ. Considering XXX XXX = D on a Bb whistle may make it easier to explain fingering and relative tones without getting into the issues of transposition. But, if TNJ sits down with his Bb whistle and thinks he’s playing D with XXX XXX, his session mates may have a word or two with him.
Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to know MT. A colleague of mine plays alto and tenor saxophone (pitched Eb/Bb respectively) he told me that he uses identical fingering designations on both but (as he is a superb sight reader) he transposes as he reads his scores.
Why would I think that Steve, when I’ve already stated?
And it’s very unlikely I’d ever take the Bb to a Session, I bought them as I’d read the key of Bb is ‘friendlier’ on the neighbours (is that the case?)
Small differences in head position can make a surprisingly big difference in tone quality. The trick is to find the best compromise position that give you good tone while still allowing you to blow the whistle into pitch/tune.
No disagreement there. Transposing players are aware that the concert pitch note they’re playing is not the same as the designated fingering - as TNJ says about his friend with the saxophones. But I do think the transposing approach is more common with whistle. There are only a few non-C wind instruments - recorders, some brass - where the player is expected to transpose fingerings. And then only for a few instrument pitch/written pitch combinations, not all twelve (or really twelve times twelve) possibilities.
That was my point. Many beginning players don’t get that transposition thing (until much later). They are told that the six-finger note is D, and we all tend to use that nomenclature in our vernacular. If we used “fingering equivalent of D” or “six finger note” it might be clearer, but I’ve had several beginners try to tell me they were playing D when they had all their fingers down—despite holding a C whistle. What I got out of TNJ’s question was “what note is the six finger note on a Bb whistle?” If I misinterpreted and confused the thread, my apologies.
I’ve removed the putty from all of my whistles, and to my ears they sound fine that way. And if they don’t, I’m the one to blame. The main thing I do is check for and file any excess plastic from the molding process. That has made the biggest improvement in my limited experience.
While I can’t say with absolute certainty as to the reason why, it would be a safe assumption that part of the reason why the neighbors haven’t called the cops on me is the occasional use of a Bb or C whistle. YMMV
Again forgive the perhaps obvious question. Thus far all the tunes I’ve managed to ‘learn’ are in D or G Major (played with a D whistle) if I now play these (using same fingerings) with the Generation Bb I am correct in thinking the D tunes will be in Bb and the G tunes Eb?
But the transposing concept eliminates the need to memorize a parallel set of scales/notes/fingerings for every possible whistle key.