FS: Sindt whistles -- Bb, A, C/C# (+ fits D)

I don’t see it as a sad thread. This is a great example of a well-run, self-regulating market in action.

Emrys has a right to offer merchandise for sale at any price, and we all have a right to comment on the reasonability of that price in our current market. We also have a right to question the seller’s motivation, and comment on his/her posting record. Nothing here reads like libel to me — more like subjective comments offered up as opinion. That’s what I come here for.

Some may be interested in the current offer. To me, the price is not competitive, which may be why they haven’t sold in earlier rounds. I’ll watch to see how it all pans out.

I admit: I’m feeling a need to do something about this whole Price Police issue.

Quite simple CHRISTMAS is here… you want a Sindt to give as a gift you are not going to get one by that time. 6 month wait as of a week ago so if somone wants to sell a whistle for a little extra dough it is fine with me… I am not afraid to pay for something if I want it bad enough, if you don’t want to pay more don’t but why complain. But I buy and sell alot of whistle too well not really on here since about 4 years ago, but heck thats one of the things I love about this site the people are in general trustworthy and watch out for each other and scams. Now I have begged borrowed and traded and own a few O’riordans, Copelands, and My favorites my Cillian O’ briains…

But just wanted to say I love this open market… if you don’t like it wait six months, if you are american stereotype and want instant gratification pay the extra mackrels.

As for respecting the maker everyone has there own views, but I sell some custom made items I make for roughly 1000.00 each and often people or stores will buy them and mark them up 500.00 or more extra.
I just say well if I wanted more I could ask more but what happens once I sell it the first time is just a free market.

Anyways let the price go… I love the Bull and the Bear in life…[/b]

PS… I defend this persons price because of instant satisfaction… I know everyone does not agree with that and I am fine with there views.

I would have considered paying $165 for one of the whistles and was almost going to after contacting mr. sindt a week ago or so and seeing the wait. Because life is short is a sense and I would rather use some money that means nothing to me to spend some time playing music that means the world to me… By the way only reason I did not is a friend offered me another O’ Riordan… and I could not say no…

Just for the record, I’ve sold whistles to Laurel (the seller) in the past. She is, in fact, a real person and professional player of whistles. I would personally buy or sell from her without concern.

As to the price, if you don’t want 'em don’t buy 'em. It may be that she has them priced high because she really likes them and isn’t that keen to part with them. Stranger things have happened.

Doc

No reason to feel sad about my post, Jim. It’s just facts and numbers. I find counting and checking stuff useful, and just thought I’d share what I found. I guess details may suggest patterns, but no Rorschach test is intended on my part, neither bats nor butterflies, unless one chooses to read in. My apologies if it came off as unfair instead of simply cautionary.

For the rest, I was just trying to make sense of the reactions myself. The anonymity of Dale’s sticky warning looms over every potential transaction here, if only to underscore the common sense caveat emptor anyway. And I trust Dale’s judgment that it’s apparently worth leaving up until such time as he says it’s no longer an issue.

I do think it’s natural and reasonable to want to know something about who one does business with, online or off. On C&F, our posts and profiles are our public personalities and reputations, and checking them seems like a reasonable thing to do. And I can’t see how linking to the poster’s CD to balance my comments is unfair.

For what it’s worth, my own few transactions with C&F members have been very satisfactory and positive. In this case, the details cited might make me cautious. But I have no dog in this fight. I’m interested in neither these particular whistles nor the outcome of the sale. I have no opinion regarding the price.

I think it’s a useful responsibility for FS posters to keep an interactive eye on the threads that they start and to follow up. Both as a positive sign of responsiveness, and to prevent any speculation or criticism from getting out of hand.

Any suggestions I might have about the price police issue I’ll PM directly to the boss. :slight_smile:

This is a human tendency to gang up on folks and
go on witch hunts. Raising the speculation that Emrys
is a thief and inviting her to deny it–though insisting
you aren’t speculating yourself–fans the flames,
though I appreciate you meant no harm.
What is she supposed to do? Chime in
after all this and try to persuade us
she isn’t a gansgta? As she isn’t likely to do that,
many rational people wouldn’t,
you’re setting up a no win situation for this
woman. If she remains silent it tends to confirm
the suspicion you raised.

Her website no longer works?
She posted this ad three times!
She’s never lowered the price?
Oh no!

You might wish to consider the effect of such a post
in this mix.

Note that this thread, which was an effort to sell some
whistles at a price that is high, but not egregiously
so, involved people piling on her, attacks on her motives,
false factual claims about her posts, the raising of the possibility
that the poster
is a thief and the invitation to her to deny it.
Meanwhile there may well be somebody
on the other end of this who is being ganged up on,
feels miserable, and is being run off the board.
I sure wouldn’t wish to be this person right now, would
you?


It was maintained above that we have the right to
say these things–maybe so. But there are plenty
of things we have the right to say that we shouldn’t
say, because they are unkind and unskillful. e.g.
I have the constitutional right to advocate publically (not here)
that negroes be shipped back to Africa. That it’s my
right to say this doesn’t make my doing so any less sad.

About the concerns you express:
There is a better way to go about this–somebody, one
or at most two, points out that the price is high.
Then we stop. The market is going to take care
of the rest, as people generally don’t wish to pay
a high price, especially when they’ve been so informed.
We refrain from getting into
motives or going on about how it’s better for
the maker to get this money, and we especially
refrain from doing this en masse. We remember that
there’s somebody there, even though she’s invisible, who
deserves the benefit of the doubt and a modicum of kindness..
If there is concern that something
dishonest is afoot, we contact a moderator.

All I can say is that my reaction in this thread was triggered by Jim’s ‘deal with it’. Which to my ears set an unpleasant tone.

I have particular misgivings about the attitude of some, and Jim being one of the vocal advocates, that dictates it’s OK to obtain any number of instruments and flog them again after a short while at a higher price. All under the ‘it’s a market’ banner. Try it out and sell it on at a profit if you don’t immediately like it. I know some instrument makers feel uneasy about this attitude (and wouldn’t make instruments for a buyer who they know is going to sell shortly after purchase) and I don’t blame them.

I certainly have the impression this poster’s posts deal mostly with buying and selling of high end whistles and I am not going to apologise for it. If anyone drew any conclusion from this remark, it’s completely up to themselves, from the first moment it was clear who Dale’s ‘problemseller’ was and it was not this one.

I agree the forums have a tendency to gang up sometimes and it’s one of the least attractive features of this environment.

Why not a small card to be opened on the day of, stating, your dream whistle has been ordered with Sindt and paid for. Please be patient. XOX.

There was a rather long wait before the arrival of the Saviour.

BTW, fine words Jim.

You forgot the key ingredient I stated to me life is to short to be waiting on something that makes me so happy, if I do not have to… I don’t need to go into details… But sometimes people don’t have time to wait because life is fragile… And if it means paying 165 dollars for a whistle well so be it… some people play music, while some people live it and money is just a parishable item to me… Who cares about it. Music on the other hand is a beautiful thing…

This is a total riot! And are you wondering, like me, how soon we’ll all be united… in WWIII? Well, didn’t mean to start it this week, dear folks! I sat back and read with awe as people went from ripping the flesh off my bones to being my protectors (thank you). No, I’m not a covert dealer using USING this forum to make a living. If you think I can make a living by selling the 7 or 8 whistles I’ve bought too many over the last five years… well, please tell me. I’m all ears.

Fellow and sister whistlers: for those of you who could care - I love the whistle. I’m a genuine whistle nutter just like you. I too have one of my favorite cheapies stashed in the auto glove compartment, and have serenaded many a surprised onlooker during that blessed extra-long stoplight. After a lifetime of playing ten instruments reasonably well, it is the whistle that holds my heart. I’ve basically dumped all the others because they don’t come close to the bliss I feel when I play the whistle.

OK? And yes, I am asking a high price for the Sindts. As one person said: you don’t have to buy. Really, you are free to be you, as Marlo sang to us in the ‘70’s. Do your thing, and don’t let me crimp your style. Personally, I waited more than a year for my first Sindt, and would have gladly paid double to get it in a week. I mean come on… whistles, at almost any price, are a really great deal. There’s no greater bang for your buck. I understand about the market’s fair value, but if you want to see fair value in action watch what happens thirty-five minutes before the close of the S&P 500 after a funky day of trading like we’re seeing lately. My point being that I am charging more … and so what?

When someone resells a Sindt at a lower price, is the person’s argument that I’m hurting dear Mr. Sindt any less true? Either we on the C&F all come out against re-selling of any living maker’s instrument, or not. Next: if I ask more than you’re willing to pay, and so you don’t buy it… well, you’ve had your say. Noted. Next: am I hurting the people who sell Sindts for cheaper prices than I’m asking? Ask them. They’re smilin’ when they read my ad: oh goody, now they’ll buy mine first. So, who exactly am I hurting by pricing these instruments like I did?

And, if I’m somehow mysteriously defiling the sanctity of being allowed to participate in the Chiff & Fipple, when pray do tell! Or better yet, let’s ask Dale to cook up a set of guidelines that really deal with this issue. Like: only people that play Celtic music in X or Y manner can participate. Or, you can only sell an instrument at a certain price once everyone who has ever written in gets to vote on it. Heck, we could really get this website humming with rules to make sure that only the pure, the good and the noble get to participate (and of course, you my dear critics get to be the judge of who that is!)

By the way, to the person who went back and pasted in some of my musings to the group over the years, you are very kind. Just because I’m not going to get all upset and insulted doesn’t mean it wasn’t hurtful. I hope by now you’ve calmed down enough to notice that your survival is very much intact, no matter what price I sell my whistles at… Heck, we really are all in this together: this big survival fest of a life we share. Why waste your emotions on something that is really none of your beeswax; enjoy yourself instead.

I don’t notice anyone losing much sleep over the O’Riordan I bought on eBay from someone in this room, someone who has sold a whole bunch of O’Riordans for plenty of markup—mine less costly than many: it was only four and half times more than what Pat charges for his whistles. Again, no one has to buy at those prices. We choose to. I was thrilled (and still am) to get to buy this lovely O’Riordan on eBay from the nice lady who sold it to me. Thank you again.

Frankly, one of the reasons I decided to price the Sindts high is because if I don’t sell them, I don’t really care. I love the four Sindts I am keeping, so Sindt-averse I am not. It’s just that I had overdone it like crazy. You know how easily we can do that with whistles. If no one considers it an attractive opportunity to buy these instruments, whistles in perfect condition-truly as good as when they were new (they’re not gonna last any less long, they don’t sound any less good for having been tooted on awhile …), then so be it. No biggie. It certainly isn’t grounds for crucifixion this time around, is it?

My husband suggested I double the prices (but then, he’s a Gemini). So, this isn’t an apology for offending anyone. That was not my intention and it certainly wasn’t a pre-ordained result. Take care of yourself and don’t waste your precious life energy being PO’d at me. It’s just not worth it. So… if folks wanna keep voting about my prices, bring it on. On the other hand, if you’ve actually got a life and don’t mind too much if I do too … then live and let live, huh? Happy whistlin’ my friends.

P.S. By the way, here’s the rest of my whistle story, for those of you apparently would give a fig. As I lifelong musician I’ve known a lot of joy and a lot of frustration. Thirty-five years ago I developed a very painful spinal condition that has made doing anything, especially playing an instrument difficult. I was a passionate flute player until the stress that it caused my body ended in a year-long bout of Bell’s Palsy that totally destroyed my embouchure. Enter the whistle: meant to be a replacement, it became top dog. I have loved every instrument I’ve played, but none like the whistle. It’s my personal savior. And indeed, it has been a great pleasure to share that mania with many of you throughout the years. I hope we can continue to be friends, whether or not I sell my Sindts for whatever price I sell them for. Godspeed.

Thanks for your post, Emrys. :slight_smile:

As I said … :slight_smile:

Jim Stone turned me into newt!

Well said Laurel. :slight_smile:

Doc

The item has depreciated because it is “previously enjoyed”, not because the seller or potential buyer has doubts about Sindt’s work.

Um, did you ask the bidders who came in second or third? Did you notice if and how they bid in the next O’Riordan auction? To paraphrase Bono on the matter of scalped U2 tickets, “We are NOT worth that much!”. The issue is what this does to market expectations. I’m glad I saw them when tickets were only $20.

Oh, now really. Enough. Are winners of auctions supposed to get all misty-eyed about those that lost out?

Nobody is ripping anybody else off here. It’s time for everyone to cut it out.

Of course not. Do makers want their instruments to end up with those who have the deepest pockets or those who have talent or great aptitude? Loretto Reid said to me years ago, “You know maker X likes to know if you’re worthy, so it helps to visit his shop.”, X being one of the most sought after flutemakers with a very long waiting list.

And I didn’t say anyone was knowingly ripping someone off, but rather pointing out the consequences of an overheated market.

Thank you, Laurel, for your candid and carefully considered reply.

Your friend,

Reg

Thanks folks for your understanding and support. It’s interesting because one of the things I’ve learned from this whole exchange is that all work and no play make Emrys’s life not so much fun at all.

Meaning, in the last two years I’ve been so incredibly focused on learning a new career to yes, gasp, make some money. Most of my life has been ye ol’ starving musician stuff. And, in the process I’ve played lots less music. So I know my participation in the C&F waned along with my tooting time… and I can see where some might get the impression that I was in it for the big bucks and not the whistle thrills.

I’ve made myself a deal that when I can actually support myself in my new career I can get back to recording and make my next album. It’s just taken about three years longer than I thought it would. The curious thing is that my new career has some striking resemblances to being a recording engineer.

One of my brightest musical moments right now is learning the Chattering Magpie. It’s such a cool tune, I’m totally addicted to playing it–especially on David O’Brien’s blackwood.