First Take: Redesigned Burke brass session D

Whistle
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I recently got a new Burke brass session D, the “new updated” design, and thought I’d offer some impressions and information that may be helpful. I’ve spoken with Mike’s wife, Susan, about the changes and hope I’m passing along accurate information. Mike often checks the site, so if I’ve omitted any important points or have misstated anything regarding the technical aspects or reasoning behind the changes, I know he’ll reply…and I’ll offer any necessary apologies now.

I own and play several Burkes that I absolutely love, and have purchased all but one directly from Mike over the years. I love the overall tone, balance and purity, dead-on accuracy, and playability of Mike’s whistles. They’re great for studio work, sessions, stage performance, and, well…anything you want to do.

I had a brass session years ago that was amazing but in a weak moment got rid of it. Now that I’ve developed an interest in getting another, Mike has changed the design. I’ve discovered new designs of any product aren’t always necessarily “better”, so I’ve always been a fan of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. And Mike’s brass sessions have always been a standard on which to base other session whistles. It took a while to get used to this new design, but in this case, the new design hasn’t really changed the overall character and tonal personality of the well-respected Burke session whistles. But they do look different.

With the previous design, the finger tube was glued into the bottom of the tuning slide. However, when whistles needed repair, this made separating the finger tube a difficult task. So in order to facilitate repairs, Mike has changed the design so the finger tube is inserted into the tuning slide, tightly held in place by internal rings that I believe are Delrin to avoid seizure. You needn’t worry about this affecting tuning, because it’s designed for the tube to be pushed all the way into the slide until it snaps into place and stops.

Mike also updated the mouthpiece/tuning slide connection by using Delrin rings inside the top portion of the slide in order to prevent seizing. With the previous design, there was always the possibility of seizure if the pieces were left together and never taken apart/maintained. From experience, I know this is especially true with aluminum. The Delrin rings are a major change in this area and it’ll be interesting to see how it holds up over time. I’d imagine if the connection becomes less tight over time for some reason, the Delrin rings can be replaced. But Delrin is pretty tough, so it’d take a lot of movement to wear the material down. And if you’re like me, once the tuning is set, I don’t mess with it.

The mouthpiece itself has been lengthened and is 37mm (1.5") from the end of the mouthpiece to the front of the blade. I’ve made a bunch of whistles and know a longer windway facilitates backpressure, making a whistle easier to play. I also learned the trade-off is a less-responsive whistle. However, Mike has figured this out, and the new design is still very responsive. Total length when in A440 tune is 302mm or about 11.875".

The window appears to be slightly wider than the previous version but can’t verify that since I don’t have an older one.

Because of the mechanics of the detachable finger tube, the tuning slide is significantly longer at 68mm (2.6875") and looks much like a 150mm ammo cartridge casing. This is a significant piece of brass and adds some heft. I haven’t weighed the whistle but it’s fairly hefty…about the same as my Reyburn session D that uses a thicker wall tubing. I wonder if Mike has considered making the tuning slide out of aluminum to reduce the overall weight? That’d be an interesting and unique looking combo.

The best thing is the new design seems to have retained that renowned Burke session sound…round, deep, and pure through both octaves. Intonation through both octaves is dead-on. I may be imagining things but it seems like the first octave may be a bit stronger than the previous version with a strong bell note. The second octave is pristine and the high A & B notes are so well balanced, they just sing out with absolutely no variance in volume from the notes below unless you lean on it. And you can really lean into the second octave, maintaining nice pure notes without breaking or screeching.

It’s not quite as loud as I expected it to be, and although louder than my 2004 Burke narrow bore aluminum (wonderful whistle), the difference isn’t significant, which surprised me. This is probably due to aluminum producing a brighter tone that’s perceived as being louder than it really is. In contrast, my Reyburn session D is obviously louder than the Burke brass session. I recorded both, and had to turn the rec vol down on the Reyburn. But the Burke is plenty loud for most sessions. As expected, it’s certainly louder than the Burke narrow bore brass I used to have. For unusually loud sessions when I need a cannon, I pull out my Chieftain high D, although I’ve been in a few sessions when even the Chieftain couldn’t be heard, so just sit back, smile, and listen. Thankfully, those situations are rare.

I have to admit, when I first pulled this whistle out of the included pouch, I was taken back by the size of the tuning slide and overall heft after being so familiar with the older whistles. But the more I play it, the more I like it.

I’ve edited this post to add that not only has Mike upgraded the sessions, but has upgraded the included pouch as well. It’s the same basic design as the previous Naugahyde pouches with fold-over flap and belt loop on the back but appears to be a very durable black nylon with more padding and is very light. Of all the whistles I’ve purchased that came with a pouch, this is the best one I’ve seen.

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I have played Mike’s instruments, right from the start. I looked at his site to find a picture of this new design, and could not locate one. Are you able to post a picture of your new instrument? The old defense industry memories in me are amused by your ‘150 mm ammo cartridge’ description.

Thanks.
Byll

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Here ya go, Byll.

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Very interesting. Looks rather hefty in comparison to what I play.

Thanks so much.
Byll

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In addition to my original post, I want to mention the more I play this whistle, the more I’m having an issue with the hole spacing that feels cramped to me…and I have fairly small hands and thin fingers.

I find myself missing notes I don’t usually miss because of the shorter spacing between the F# and G holes where my index fingers are rubbing against each other more so than on my other whistles that have wider spacing. I don’t have problems with slight variations in total spacing from the top to bottom hole, but if the spacing between the F# and G is too short and my fingers are running into each other, it’s not comfortable to play and really throws me off. I’ve played a couple other whistles with this shorter spacing and at least for me, it’s just not comfortable.

I compared the new Burke to my narrow bore aluminum DAN (older style blacktip) and the G, A, and B holes are placed just slightly higher on the narrow bore than on the brass session. As a result, it’s enough to be more comfortable to play and doesn’t feel cramped. In the photos below, it doesn’t look like much but it’s enough to make a difference.

Below are some comparison photos to show what I’m talking about. In each photo, I’ve lined up the F# holes linked with a yellow line and indicated which whistle is being compared. The Burke DBSBT is always on the right. You can easily see the difference in hole placement, with all other G holes (hole directly above the F# hole) placed higher, meaning more space between the two.

Actual measurements of the distance between the center of the F# and G holes to the nearest .5mm are:
New Burke Brass Session: 20.5mm
Burke Narrow Bore Alum: 22mm
Sindt: 23mm
Susato: 22.5 (not pictured)
Overton: 26mm
Chieftain: 25mm
Dixon Trad: 24mm

The differences may seem insignificant “on paper”, but it’s amazing how much even one mm difference in hole placement can make in playing comfort.

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I have been looking at the picture of your new Burke whistle and the hole spacing looks just like my old Burke session “pre-blacktip” dated Feb, 2001.

The E and F# holes are just close together. I don’t think Mike changed anything with the holes. IMHO
Nate

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I’ll contact Mike next week and talk to him about it. Nothing like getting the true scoop from the maker.

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Ballyshannon, I think you’re starting to channel MTGuru with your review and comparisons and close measurements. Beware! That way lies the road to madness!

Oh, never mind .. carry on, it’s interesting stuff. :laughing:

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nice post / review Ballyshannon. It’s interesting to see the comparisons between the different whistle finger spacings. I hope Michael can help you resolve your problem. I have a similar issue with flute spacing.

FWIW - I purchased that exact whistle from Michael at the Dublin fest and find it fits my fingers fine. Sorry you are having issues with yours. IMO it’s a wonderful whistle with a nice reedy quality to the sound that I love. I am having a hard time putting it down ; )

Deisman

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i had the chance to play the new style of burke whistle against the one immediately preceding it. my uncle, brian mccoy, is the guy who plays the sound clips that load right away when you go to burke’s websites. my uncle has a lot of burke whistles, those that he has been given and those that he has bought. all of the ones my uncle plays are session bore, aluminum.


playing the newest against the directly preceding one, i was also taken aback by the look of the tuning, slide. however, i liked the new one more, hands down. i liked the tone more, and i thought it had more room to play with musically–you could lean into more, and pull back more.

it goes to show, right when we all think mike has showed us all the best, he ups the ante.

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MTGuru… :astonished: NO! Say it isn’t so!! No, I know exactly what you’re saying. However, keep in mind this is a fairly expensive handmade whistle…at least for me who doesn’t exactly have unlimited funds…and I love the tone and overall playability, so naturally I’m disappointed with the shorter hole spacing than I’m accustomed to. Maybe it’s just this particular whistle. Hard to say without at least talking to Mike or having him take a look. But I assure you I’m still totally sane :boggle: …I think.

Deisman and Daiv, I agree 100% that the tone of this whistle is wonderful and mentioned in the original post that it may be better than the previous versions. This whistle sings, can handle more push, and provides more room for expression than I remember with the old non-blacktip I had, so tonal quality and playability isn’t an issue. I agree that Mike has upped the ante overall with this whistle. I’m sure Mike has sold a ton of these and I haven’t heard any other complaints about the hole spacing, so either I have a rogue whistle and need to exchange it, or if this is the way they are now, I need to modify my playing style on this one. I do love the tonal character and overall playability of this whistle.

Daiv, you’re uncle is an incredibly talented player. When I first heard that clip on Mike’s site, I was in awe. I’ve often gone back to the site just to hear him play, and plan to purchase the CD.

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thanks! i’ll let him know you said that.

dont feel bad–i heard someone else say that they were having trouble adjusting to the new style, too. i play the concertina, so i know what that’s like. every concertina not only sounds different, plays differently, sounds different in different rooms (and often does not play like another one made by the same maker in the same batch), but every concertina has different button spacings, different spring tensions, different pressure needed to make the reeds work, different sized hand rests and often different button shapes.

it can be very difficult to get used to another concertina. you might pick up a concertina with the best reeds you ever played, but be unable to reach any of the buttons. sometimes you pick up a concertina that fits like a glove, but you dont like the sound. one time, i picked up a concertina with cheap, horrible buttons, horrible action, but a great sound–if i didnt have one on order, i would have sold the one i had just to get that one, even though playing it was like pulling teeth (actually, pulling teeth is easier to play than this one was!). sometimes, with concertinas, you have to fight the instrument to get it to work; the difference between a good concertina, and a great one, is not in how easy it plays, but whether or not when you fight it, it will do what you want. i have not played this concertina (i’ve never had the gaul to ask noel to let me play any of his), but i believe i have seen it in person: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWosPa3SuNM . noel is probably not kidding when he says it is difficult to play. but the proof is in the pudding–just listen to that sound!

after playing so many concertinas, you get used to it–you learn how to play concertinas that are just different than yours. a couple of years ago, when everyone at the session i went to didnt know i played concertina, this girl walked in and had a dipper concertina, with raised ends, and the nicest wood i ever saw. i knew i might never have a chance to play one like it, as colin dipper custom makes every concertina, and no two are the same (unless you say, "i want one exactly like he has), so against my pride, i asked. after i she let me play, she looked at me dumbfounded, and asked, “how can you play my concertina?” of course i played horribly, but being able to pick up another concertina and play it first go is a skill, which many of us dont have, because there simply arent enough to play, especially here in chicago. but i have been so lucky as to have the opportunity to play about 20 or 30 concertinas (lucky enough that someone would let me play with their $$$ toys), so i’ve learned the skill.

the concertina i have coming was not the concertina that i could play the best. i honestly could not reach all the buttons when i put the down payment on it, or the next year, or the year after that. this year, i can, and it will be coming in a few months. i chose to choose the best reeds and the best sound, not the best fit for my hands. so i know your pain! it’s annoying. some people choose the best fit, some choose the best sound. there’s no wrong choice. if you cant play it, it doesnt matter how good it sounds. although, i am lucky enough to have adapted to the point where my finger agility lets me play the very concertinas i couldnt reach before.

so hold in there. give it a few months! if not, you can always see if you cant track down an old one. check the irish flute store, and see if one pops up. also, who knows, maybe there is something wrong with your whistle, or mike could tweak it so you can play it better. best of luck!

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Daiv,

Thanks for the support. I’ve been playing it a lot the last couple days and getting a bit more used to it. It’s amazing how we humans can adapt to just about anything, so have no doubt I can adapt to this whistle. It’s not as if it’s impossible to play. It’s just a bit close on those two holes and I’m just not used to it. I’ve been playing for quite a while and normally can pick up any whistle and do pretty well right off, but most whistles I’ve played and own have wider spacing on those two holes. I’d still like to talk with Mike about it and see what he says. He’s been extremely helpful and accommodating in the past. Hope he and Susan are having a great time at the Milwaukee Irish Fest.

Thanks for the info on concertinas. I love concertina and have been seriously considering taking it up, but there aren’t any teachers around here that I’m aware of. We have a very good player who visits our sessions from Birmingham on occasion, but she’s too busy for lessons, not to mention it’d be a 200mi round trip for lessons :astonished:

I started looking at concertinas and discovered there are different types and certainly different pricing! There’s a place in Birmingham that specializes in concertinas, so called them about a year ago and learned a lot from the owner.

Maybe we can discuss “all things concertina” privately. I’d like to learn more about them and find out what to look for when buying, etc.

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Hi Everyone,
Just got back from Milwaukee and saw this thread.
I wanted to say first of all that I recommend that my whistles never ever be immersed in water at all. I recommend pulling a strip of cloth soaked in alcohol if you wish to clean the bore. The water can get under the plastic liner in the heads and other places and cause some problems if you soak them in water for a period of time. Normal playing and even a quick dip may not hurt, but I feel safer recommending to never do it.
I have used the same tubing for my brass session instruments for 8 years, so any differences are very small between a wide bore brass made in 2000 or a DBS made in 2002 or a DBSBT made in 2008.
The changes to the slide are to make the slide smoother and the breakdown joint allows easy transport, cleaning and repairs are a breeze now if you ever damage the lower bore. The whistles are not better acoustically, though just because they have a new tuning slide. The slide is lighter than it looks because the brass is lined with white delrin, making it very light.
The tonehole layouts, also have not changed very much for my models over the years, though I have tweaked them to optimize tuning, octave length and tonal balance over the years, as well as attempting to improve the cross fingering of the natural C as much as is possible. Still, a 2002 model of a DBS and a 2008 DBSBT will not be much different at all in feel, or at least not to me and I have them all here to try side by side.
One thing that is certain, though, is that changing anything at all about a whistle can mean an adjustment to players that play fast, so it takes a few days to adjust to the different whistles made by different makers.
My narrow bores may have different spacings because sound travels faster in a smaller diameter tube, making it slightly longer at the same pitch as a wider bore. It is not a lot, but it is measurable. Other factors make all designs different so that comparing tonehole locations may not be very useful in determining which is “better” in any particular way. What is true is that there are many different possible combinations that work pretty well. My job as a whistle maker is to find the best combination of tone hole location and size plus many other factors in the complete whistle design to make the instrument play as it should play, or at least the way I intend for it to play. I don’t rely on my own opinions on this, but ask the best players I know to help me determine this. I spent some time with Joanie Madden this weekend and she is always helpful in offering suggestions and I regularly speak with Brian McCoy, who is also a fantastic player and another major consultant. There is a long list of people that I consult and we constantly make small tweaks to attempt to improve the designs, but you will not be able to “feel” the differences in most cases, except for the largest low whistles, where the differences may be more measurable by tactile means. The biggest differences may be in dynamic range, tuning, octave length, tonal level balance, tonal color, or transient response, but you can’t measure those with a ruler either, you must play the instruments to experience that.
I make 6 different D whistle models, so my customers can find a material and a characteristic that is to their own liking. Since people like different things, however, I am sure there are many that might find it difficult to choose from 10 different Ds, but then, that is why there is more than one maker. There is a whistle out there, made by someone, that is best for everyone. The best makers work very hard to make their instruments the best they can be. I am honored to be friends with many of the fine makers.
I hope this helps and I also hope I did not offer too much information. Please email me at any time if you have further questions.
All the best
Mike

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Mike,

Thanks so much for your reply and valuable information.

I’ve actually only soaked my Burkes a couple times in the several years I’ve owned them, and when I did soak them, it was very quick, maybe a couple minutes, then immediately dried by gently using low pressure compressed air. I haven’t done any soaking in a long time and have only been cleaning the windways by running a piece of heavy paper stock through them. Naturally, this new whistle has never been near water and for sure, will not be soaked. I’ll start using your recommendation of alcohol and cloth on the bore when needed. I’ll also remove the “soaking” statement from the original post so it won’t present the wrong procedure to future readers.

I know there are many factors involved in arriving at an optimal design, and I know the photos are comparing several makers who deal with those factors in their own ways. But my only intent was to show that particular spacing relative to playing comfort, which is an important part of of it all. I wasn’t in any way inferring that the other makers’ designs are better…only that the particular hole spacing mentioned is more comfortable for me when it’s a bit wider. But I’m getting more used to this whistle and it’s not a big issue any more. I’ve just made some adjustments. Ideally, I should have given it a few more days and there’d be no need to have even mentioned it here.

Again, thanks for the input.
My best,
Denny

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I hesitate posting here, as I’m a complete noob (been playing regularly since maybe late June) WRT whistles, but I’ve played stringed instruments for years so I think I’m progressing fairly well…

I just received a brass Session Burke (got it on Saturday, thanks Mike!!!). I did notice that compared to the other whistles I have (Clarke, Waltons, a PVC Becker) I seem to have fingers “rubbing” more than I do on the other ones, but it seems minimal. I don’t have “sausage fingers,” but neither do I have skinny ones. I figure that this will “play in” as I get more than 48 hours under my fingers. I do love the way this whistle looks, feels, and sounds. Looking forward to breaking it out at my local session.

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Dang server errors! Double post…

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I bought a D brass session bore at the Dublin, Ohio festival. I played a lot of Mike’s whistles there and I liked this one best. However I would have been happy with the Aluminum as well. I like this whistle. It plays well. It has a great sound. Thanks Mike, I love it. I usually let my brass whistles develop a fine patina but this one says keep me shiny bright..

Ron

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UPDATE and happy times: After playing this whistle constantly, I’ve learned to adjust the way I position my left hand and am having no more problems with the shorter spacing.

I noticed I tend to very slightly roll the fingers on my left hand downward (laterally towards the bottom of the tube) for whatever natural tendency this may be tied to, causing my left index finger to roll more towards the bottom of the G hole and coming into contact with the index finger on my right hand on the F# hole. I deduced this was probably due to the way my left thumb was placed on the underside of the tube, pushing up at an angle. I’ve probably been doing this all along but just never noticed it because of the wider hole spacing on my other whistles. With a slight correction in thumb placement so the fingers aren’t rolled down, all is well in Burkeville. :slight_smile:

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I have large hands and do not have any problems with the tone hole spacing. Go figure. We are all different.

Regarding the tuning slide; on my DBSBT it’s almost not needed. I simply align the slide with the index mark and it’s in tune. Granted, different weather conditions might merit moving the slide slightly.

Now the only whistle I play is my DBSBT. Ahh; whistle monogamy is blissful.

Cheers, Cyril.