fife questions

Irish Flute
1

I’ve been playing low D flutes for many years, not necessarily Irish style, mainly a random variety of a mix of established tunes and ones I’ve made up myself.

Currently I’ve got a Copley delrin which I’m very happy with, plus a couple of lesser low D’s.

I’ve recently been considering a fife, partly cos they’re a tad more portable, partly cos I just like the look of them.

On the low D I prefer the lower notes and, cos i play at home a lot, it’s more considerate for the neighbours not be be going too high, though, as time goes by, I’m getting gradually better at playing the high 2nd octave notes quietly and with control.

Fifes, from what I’ve read, seem to be designed to play mainly in the 2nd/3rd octave? Or is it more that they just happen to be played up there purely to be heard over the drums, and, if so, do they produce decent tone in the 1st octave?

I know that there are also more modern fife type objects built to be played in the lower octave, but, the kind of fife I really like the look of is the classic 1pc, gently bulging towards the middle with a metal ferrule on each end i.e. the civil war variety- can they be played with good tone and, in tune, in their lower octave.

Essentially, I’m wanting to be able to transfer much of my currenbt flute repetoire over the fife, i’ve already been working on a couple of easy fife tunes like ‘Yankee Doodle/the girl I left behind’.

Also, i was wondering if anyone had had dealings with this company-

http://www.angusfifes.com/

http://shop.fifeanddrumshop.com/epages/es143324.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es143324/Products/CAfricanWalnut

(specific fife)

and if they were a good souce of instruments?

Alternatively, if anyone knows of other good sources of fifes: but I’m looking for, ideally, UK companies, possibly european, definitly NOT U.S. companies, as I’m tired of the hassles with UK customs and the numerous extra taxes/charges that get randomly tagged on to stuff from the US.

2

Sounds to me like you want a piccolo.
A little conical d flute that is designed to play in the low octave as well.
Confusingly many people call piccolo fifes and Ralph Sweet calls these folk fifes.

There is a Raplh Sweet folk fife on ebay uk.
Jem jHammond makes pvc piccolos that are great little things.
Sam Murray, Terry Mcgee, Hammy Hamilton, and Peter Worrell and maybe a few more are making them.
You will find a few on ebay every week as well.

Maybe just have one made with ferrules like you want.
Maybe Ralphs camp fife?
http://www.sweetheartflute.com/folkfifes.html

3

No, i’m definitly after a fife :slight_smile:

Jems piccolos are indeed nice instruments- i’ve got one already. But really I’m wanting some thoughts on actual fifes.

I’m aware of the sweet fifes, they tend to come towards the top in any googles on ‘fife’, but, they’re U.S. based, and, like i said in the op, due to the customs issues, i want to stick to the UK. (edit- sorry, just realised the sweet you mentioned is on ebay.co.uk)

I’ll check out ebay, but, really I’m looking for a uk/european source that people on here have had good experiences with.

4

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/angus-fifes-and-flutes/75989/1

5

I’ve played Cooperman Bb fifes since 1970 (My signature photo is of me playing one in 1976). There was a little drop in quality, IMHO, after Pat Cooperman died in the mid 90’s I believe, but that was short lived and I have a couple beautiful looking and sounding Cooperman’s made more recently. And I play them in the lower octave all the time, especially when my fingers want a break from the larger low D flute stretch. I have a beautiful high “C” Cooperman fife in boxwood made in 1971, which I occasionally get to play in sessions. It is closer to a piccolo and sounds great in all three octaves (though I play it only in the lower register in sessions so as not to deafen everyone).

Also, Skip Healy makes a honking Bb 2 piece fife available with either the standard 6 finger hole or 10 finger hole (full chromatic) model. A bit more expensive but great instruments.

Good luck choosing.

6

Also, I’ve always thought that Peeler Fifes looked grand, but haven’t actually played one. have heard good reviews, though.

7

We play 16th and 17th century period music using large reproduction rope tension side drums and renaissance Bb fifes from Angus Fifes. We are very happy with the fifes as they play well, are well made and Davy, who makes the fifes is an enthusiast who gives great service.

8

dunnp has posted a link above to a thread about Angus fifes, and another year of playing my Angus stainless steel D wouldn’t change a word of what I said about my Angus fife in the previous thread.

Loads of great tone, lovely to play, and seriously under-priced. If you’re looking to get a D fife (and good for you if you are), an Angus is a very good way to go.

9

I can recommend Angus Fifes as I am a member of a Fife Corps and we play Angus Fifes.
We play the Bb for concert work and the Rennaisance D for our outdoor work.
I also have a C sharp and a Low D. All sound well, look good and are nice to handle.
They are very reasonably priced and you will not be dissapointed with anything you buy from Angus Fifes.
They are also very good drum makers and we use these as well. :slight_smile:

10





Thanks for that- good recommendations from people who’ve bought from the company are what I was wanting to hear.

Now I just need decide on what key I want to get. Definitly not a high D, as after years of playing low D flutes I find really high pitched flutes to be very difficult in terms on embrouchure, and, the volume is way too much for playing in my flat (I do own a high D piccolo, and, though it’s a good quality instrument, I never gelled with it for those reasons).

I was initially thinking a C, as it’s such a common key, but, given that I usually play on my own, a Bb might be better, as it’s a tad lower in pitch, and, I understand, it seems to be the most common key in marching bands? (so, in the unlikely event someone starts a marching band in sheffield, I could join in :slight_smile:)

Does anyone play the even lower keyed fifes e.g. A or G?

11

I think this is an Angus fife in this clip:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p91zI_CspP0

I have not played an Angus fife, but did own a Ralph Sweet folk fife in G that was excellent.



If you want a bflat and want to play quietly in the lower octaves in a flat,
a conical “band flute” may be a more logical choice besides the fact that you prefer the fife styling.
There are always a few on ebay.

The difference is the bore a fife in general in cylindrical and designed to be loud and strong in the 2nd and 3rd octaves.
The band flute will be conical bore and to my ears much better in the lower octave, may be keyed, unkeyed, or one keyed.

While I realize your after an Angus fife and a uk supplier you may consider other options and what type of music you wish to play amd volume. I was unhappy with the cylndrical bored fifes I played and I own a bfalt Metlzer band flute that I love playing and can quiet it down enough to play in my flat.
Though I play Irish music and rarely go above b or c in the second octave.

For the benefit of others there is a lovely looking (at least) antique fife on ebay us:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANTIQUE-19THC-J-W-PEPPER-IMPROVED-PREMIER-EBONY-SILVER-FLUTE-FIFE-PICCOLO-CLEAN-/370607845244?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5649f2ef7c#ht_2439wt_836

12

Definitly not Angus Fifes on these videos

13

Is there more than one fife maker in Donaghadee?

Since youre here can you tell us if your fifes are designed to play in the low octave and are they all cylindrical bores or do you make conical instruments as well?

Its always nice to hear directly from the makers.

14

Hey Dave,

Check out the “Stealth” fife from WD Sweet here: http://www.wdsweetflutes.com/stealth.php

It has a conical bore hidden inside a classically shaped exterior.

I have one of Walt Sweet’s old Boehm type bored fifes from 1991 and it is a very good player for folk music (strong bottom octave). But the fife’s exterior is just a simple one-piece rosewood cylinder with brass ferrules.

15

‘Band flute’? Aren’t they usually keyed? Perhaps you could link to a page explaining what they are- I’ve done a quick google but I think when it comes to fifes/piccolos/band flutes, there seems to be a lack of general agreement over what the terms mean.

I’m very interested in this cylindrical bore vs conical though.

My current understanding of the 2 is entirely from the world of low D flutes- so. to me, a prime function of conical bore in the low D is to sort out the intonation and tuning of 2nd octave to match the first: where, with a cylindrical bore (assuming no other adjustment devices like wedges (e.g. tipple) or parabolic head shaping (Boem), they’d be out.)

Whereas that doesn’t seem to be so paramount with fifes? Certainly, many product descriptions of fifes don’t seem to mention whether they’re cylindrical or conical bored, whereas it’s considered vital info when buying a low d flute.

And you’re saying that the bore type with fifes determines the volume, specifically the relative volumes of the 3 octaves?

In which case, i’m wondering if the notions of bore I’ve got from low D flutes, don’t necessarily apply in the same way to fifes?

(Also, maybe I’ve got this wrong, but isn’t it the case that a conical bore on a fife tends to be very unlike on a flute i.e. the fife bore is biggest in the middle of the fife, then diminishes towards both the head and the foot?)

16

there’s a bit of undercutting the tone holes to balance the octaves

conical allows the holes to be closer, as the ID gets smaller

17

Hello Dave,
I’m in no way trying to discourage you from a fife just by your criteria a band flute makes more sense. I’m no expert just went through the same thing and prefered my band flute to any fife I tried.
Here is the best artcle I could find to explain the differences:

http://www.oldflutes.com/articles/fife/index.htm

From the above article

The most significant and defining characteristic of the true fife is the narrowness of its bore in relation to its length and, therefore, its preference for the higher and highest notes of its range and its resulting characteristic (sometimes shrill) sound. Click here for a sound sample. A fife is expected to play regularly in the first sixth of its third octave and almost never in the first octave (some have low notes that barely speak). For example, the Cloos Bb fife shown at the top of this page has a bore of approximately 11.4 mm (and some fifes have bore diameters of 11 mm or less) while the Bb band flute shown just above, with approximately the same sounding length, has a 13 mm bore in the head joint. Unlike a true fife, this particular band flute has a sonorous first octave, much better than the fife, and a less charming and more difficult third octave.

Rick Wilson


To sum up
Fife: cylindrical six holed, relatively same sized holes, the tapers are only for outer appearances, favors higher octaves

Band flute: conical, one to six keyed ( though there are Asian made keyless ones on ebay)
Better in low octave.

Your understanding of taper on the bore makes complete sense, I think the reason it gets slightly confusing with fifes due to the narrowness of the bore and even sized holes which make it favor the higher octaves

Here is a quick video of my band flute made a while back:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu4hTHdMR2s

I have some third part confusion in this tune.

I would still like to try some Angus stuff myself.

Take care,
Hope you find what you’re after,
Patrick

18

Here is a sound clip of a G fife from Davy Angus bottom and middle octave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Tl3Yj2NRQ

19

Something to listen to.

Bb Fife played in bottom and middle octave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p91zI_CspP0

Here is a clip of a Davy Angus Bb Fife posted on youtube.
The tune is a composition by the Fifer himself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-l7vRlBJXA

Walking Stick flute Low D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE323RTuuq4&feature=g-upl

G Fife
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Tl3Yj2NRQ&feature=g-upl

20

You’ll notice the clip you posted second is by accoridianstu the same fellow that made the clip I posted which you assured me was definitely not a an Angus fife?