Ethnicwinds whistles and Nick Metcalf

Whistle
1

Just before the new year on December 31, 2015, I ordered two whistles from Ethnicwinds. When I ordered them Nick Metcalf suggested there would be a two week build time. A while later, I added a third whistle which Mr. Metcalf suggested would be ready, along with the two others, on January 25.

Since then, I have contacted Mr. Metcalf ~weekly for status updates. His responses include his having to substitute teach, among other things. My favorite was him apparently mistaking me for another customer as he responded by saying there was a missing signature on a customs form. I noted to him there were no customs requirements for shipping from Texas to Florida, he once again suggested the whistles would be built by February 15. I mentioned to Mr. Metcalf that this was disappointing.

Now, Mr. Metcalf is refusing to respond to my requests for information regarding my order. I have sent him no less than five emails through his Ethnicwind site with no response. I still have no whistles.

So, why am I posting? Well, two reasons to be honest. The first is to make due note of Ethnicwinds inability to keep their word let alone treat their customers with respect. The second is to see if perhaps Ethnicwinds and this Nick Metcalf character are no more than a con artist and a slick web page.

He has my money. I have no whistles. He won’t respond to me. I wonder what I’m supposed to think… :angry: :confused:

2

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/whistle-makers-ethnicwind/92550/1

Seems to have happened in the past as well.

3

Don’t panic just yet I’m sure he’ll make everything right in time… from his website:

“the wait time usually ranges from 1 to 9 weeks.”

4

This is week 9 and while I agree that he has 2 more days on this sale to reach 9 weeks, I am very concerned that he refuses to communicate with me. Also, his statements to me as to schedule (see original post) were his not mine.

Part of our original negotiations included his original schedule. Had he said 9 weeks to begin with, I may have accepted it or I may have chosen a different vendor. :open_mouth: :boggle:

5

Well, you have two options:

  1. Wait longer

  2. Request a refund


    I have no experience with him and don’t know anything about his instruments. However, when I order an instrument that has not yet been built, I always count on waiting longer than the estimated time frame. More often than not, it is going to be later than the estimate. I prefer to not rush instrument builders, as I’d not want them to sacrifice quality to meet a time frame. Then again, I would not pay the whole cost up front from a maker that were not of established good repute.

6

You’re right, of course. But it was him who suggested the schedule under which the agreement was made. How do I ask for a refund if he will not communicate with me?

7

Nick just posted this on Facebook:

“As many of you know I have had a very hard time catching up on all my old orders. Because I got so far behind and still have about 80 outstanding orders I have decided to change how I make the instruments. I have begun working in a machine shop and now I am able to use a milling machine and a very very expensive c&c machine. This will allow me to make very precisely machined whistles with differences of less than 1,000th of an inch between whistles. I have made the first prototype that has nothing pretty done to it, it’s mainly to make measurements for the c&c machine. The final product will be much more attractive. The tuning will be 100% perfectly accurate, and the whistle will be virtually indestructible. I am coating the inside of the windway with Teflon to prevent moisture buildup. Once we get it set up, I will be able to produce many more whistles per day. My cost will be substantially higher per whistle, but hopefully the time factor will make the price manageable. I have been working with a mechanical engineer who is helping me with the design, and I’m pretty excited as I believe this will end up being the whistle model that other whistles are measured against. For those of you who have outstanding orders, I will most likely be trying to see if you will accept the new model in place of what you ordered. The first batch will be low Ds, so if that’s what you are waiting for, that’s what will be ready first. I anticipate having all keys available but not sure how fast anything will be ready. Thank you all for your patience, and I will try and make you the best instrument I can.”

8

Not possible!

“I believe this will end up being the whistle model that other whistles are measured against.”

I’d be very surprised.

9

My thoughts exactly…

10

Well, that’s interesting.

First of all, to defend this gentleman, it is not possible to know whether an instrument plays 100% accurately or not until you play it. I’ve heard a couple of his instruments and they sound very good to me.

Second of all, I’d like to give you my personal interpretation of his Farcebook post. I apologize for any inappropriate language or insinuations in advance as I am dumbfounded by this man’s hubris.

“As many of you know I have had a very hard time catching up on all my old orders. Because I got so far behind and still have about 80 outstanding orders I have decided to change how I make the instruments. I have begun working in a machine shop and now I am able to use a milling machine and a very very expensive c&c machine.” Well, Nick, that’s great. But, what about what I ordered? It appears to me that your statements about delivery times were complete bollox. I thought you were a Christian business man…

“I have made the first prototype that has nothing pretty done to it, it’s mainly to make measurements for the c&c machine. The final product will be much more attractive. The tuning will be 100% perfectly accurate, and the whistle will be virtually indestructible. I am coating the inside of the windway with Teflon to prevent moisture buildup.” Mr. Metcalf, that’s all fine and dandy. Fine and dandy. I am going to assert, here and now, that I would be able to completely destroy one of these “virtually indestructible” whistles in under a day. Ask that expensive mechanical engineer you have hired. Go ahead. I’ll wait… Now, while I’m waiting, here’s a little blurb about the toxicity of Teflon. http://eartheasy.com/article_teflon_toxicity.htm Will your expensive mechanical engineer (he IS licensed, isn’t he?) be covered by his professional liability insurance for damages caused by using this poisonous material in your whistles? Go ask. I’ll wait again…

“Once we get it set up, I will be able to produce many more whistles per day. My cost will be substantially higher per whistle, but hopefully the time factor will make the price manageable. I have been working with a mechanical engineer who is helping me with the design, and I’m pretty excited as I believe this will end up being the whistle model that other whistles are measured against.” I wish I could say that your customers will be dropping like flies from being poisoned by Teflon, but that would not be fair and honest. And, even if it is indeed the best whistle on the planet, your customer service will surely eat heavily into your sales. I know, for example, that my experience with Teflon products has been abysmal and I certainly don’t want to put my lips on that crap. How long do Teflon pans last? My best was maybe six months before it had to be thrown out. Just saying.

“For those of you who have outstanding orders, I will most likely be trying to see if you will accept the new model in place of what you ordered. The first batch will be low Ds, so if that’s what you are waiting for, that’s what will be ready first. I anticipate having all keys available but not sure how fast anything will be ready. Thank you all for your patience, and I will try and make you the best instrument I can.” Hubris. Delusions of grandeur. Inability to put himself in the shoes of his customers, you know, the ones he BLATANTLY LIES to.

Well, Nick. I am one of the customers who has an outstanding order. You are now about two months late on making my instruments, based on YOUR words, not mine. Here’s how I see it and how a court of law will probably see it. When I paid for the whistles I ordered, I entered into a contract with you to make the whistles. Not indestructible unobtainium teflon coated super whistles. I simply want what I paid for; no more, no less.

As I see it, Nick, you have used the money I paid you for whistles to set up equipment, experiment with it, and hire an engineer to assist you in product development, not for time and materials to meet your contractual obligations to me, your customer. Kudos. That’s what a con artist does, Nick. Certainly not a Christian businessman. As I see it, you are gutless for not contacting me.

So, here it is, 5:00 a.m. and I’m shaking I’m so mad… :angry:

11

I sympathise with the occasional need to vent but some things don’t need to be done on the internet. Business disputes are best dealt with in private, direct communication between the parties involved.

I thought you were a Christian business man…

What has that to do with the price of fish?

12

Well, of course you are right. I won’t deny that.

My point is that this Metcalf character portrays himself as a devout Christian. Taking someone’s money for one thing and using it for another is not very Christian. My purpose in that statement stands: to shame this man into doing what is right. Not something I would do under normal circumstances, but it is not possible to communicate with him directly because he has ceased all communication.

So, what do you recommend? I continue to get ignored sending him emails, pleading for a schedule. My only other recourse is to get an attorney involved. Won’t that be fun?

I am posting this “vent” here, because Mr. Metcalf is a member of this forum and would see my frustration and hopefully take appropriate action.

13

Due to inherent design compromises, it is not possible to make any whistle ‘100% perfectly’ in tune. Since not even the greatest maker of the greatest instrument can do it, his claim simply doesn’t stand up.

14

So, what do you recommend?

If you no longer want the whistle, ask a refund.

As a few general points:

  • Never pay a maker the full amount up front unless the item is ready to ship. A deposit on order is reasonable. Payment in full only on completion.
  • While it is understandable to get excited ordering an instrument, the maker is not your friend and getting into an extended correspondence about progress is not a good idea. A maker may have dozens of customers with orders outstanding. If they all write every week, time to reply will eat seriously into workshop time. A long string of e-mails may well turn a maker under stress off replying (to certain customers) altogether. Keep your demands on a maker’s time to a necessary minimum.
  • Understand self employed instrument makers may work in a mode different from your regular (on-line)shop
15

Again, you are correct. The truth is, I would not have contacted him until today (his 9 week turn around) except that he gave me reason to believe they would be done weeks ago.

If Mr. Metcalf has completed a whistle or whistles, I don’t want to leave him hanging for that. If he hasn’t begun construction on them, I would indeed want a refund. Problem is, if he will not communicate with me, how can I determine this? (This is a rhetorical question.)

16

How did you pay? By credit card? As a general possibility, if the other party is incommunicado you can always go via the cc company. I have done that a couple of times when I’ve received a bill charging for goods not ordered or received. CC companies work fast in my experience.
And if you paid with paypal then there’s the normal paypal dispute mechanism.
If you paid any other way than with credit card or similar (i.e. some method which can handle disputes) then you could be in trouble. Not recommended.

17

I would ask for a refund. And keep asking.

18

Thank you all for your sage and sound advice.

I am sorry for ranting but I am very frustrated.

19

I am very frustrated.

And that is understandable but going off on the internet is not going to create much goodwill with someone you’re trying to get something, either an instrument or a refund, from. At this stage you don’t want to do anything counter-productive.

20

Just for your information, I saw this posted on Facebook by Nick:

As many of you know I have had a very hard time catching up on all my old orders. Because I got so far behind and still have about 80 outstanding orders I have decided to change how I make the instruments. I have begun working in a machine shop and now I am able to use a milling machine and a very very expensive c&c machine. This will allow me to make very precisely machined whistles with differences of less than 1,000th of an inch between whistles. I have made the first prototype that has nothing pretty done to it, it’s mainly to make measurements for the c&c machine. The final product will be much more attractive. The tuning will be 100% perfectly accurate, and the whistle will be virtually indestructible. I am coating the inside of the windway with Teflon to prevent moisture buildup. Once we get it set up, I will be able to produce many more whistles per day. My cost will be substantially higher per whistle, but hopefully the time factor will make the price manageable. I have been working with a mechanical engineer who is helping me with the design, and I’m pretty excited as I believe this will end up being the whistle model that other whistles are measured against. For those of you who have outstanding orders, I will most likely be trying to see if you will accept the new model in place of what you ordered. The first batch will be low Ds, so if that’s what you are waiting for, that’s what will be ready first. I anticipate having all keys available but not sure how fast anything will be ready. Thank you all for your patience, and I will try and make you the best instrument I can.