I always wonder why there are so many pipers who play tunes that are definitely in a pure e-minor or a-minor key accompanied with (d-) drones. There are also some historic u.pipes recordings of great pipers where drones are used to accompany their minor-tunes.
For my ‘continental’ ear and my knowledge this seems to be rather strange, I’m tempted to say wrong.
I would say, it is possible to play a tune in d-minor with d-drones. (But there are very few I know which are more or less handy for the chanter.)
For my taste tunes in e-minor, a-minor or a-major are definitely taboo together with drones.
Ulrich I kinda a go partways with your views .I think you can get away with the D Drones on E agus A minor tunes but thats about it . G agus D major with D drones Ok.
Taboo or not taboo that is the question?We have a thing over here which some of you may not have heard about and that is TRADITION BEARERS ie handing down the tradition to future generations.This means of course preserving what we know about the tradition which has been handed down to us via the same way.No fusion mumbo jumbo no seperation of chanters from the rest of the instrument just plain honest to goodness Irish music such as my grandfather played in his time for the enjoyment of many.That is not to say don’t enjoy yourself with whatever takes your fancy but first things first and don’t lose sight of what the core of ceol is.
The continental ear is a very important aspect of our music and I think a time comes when you have to divorce the hybrids and say this isn’t traditional music but something altogether different..which is fine but don’t confuse one with the other and don’t negate the good work of the TRADITION BEARERS without whom a lot of you wouldnae have a uilleann pipe forum to blether on as we wouldnae have had the Ulleann Pipes today
Sorry to go on but i do feel rather passionate today must be full moon on the way
Slan go foill
Liam
Several years ago when I was just starting to play, I asked Jerry O’Sullivan about playing E minor tunes with the drones turned and his reply indicated that he didn’t consider it a problem. These days, my ear is quite comfortable with the drones buzzing away while playing tunes in E minor and A minor. My guitar playing buddies get a little frustrated at times, however.
I do like to shut off the drones for tunes in which c# is a prominent note, for example, The Dark Haired Lass.
I remember a saying from my earliest days studying music - if you listen to an out-of-tune piano long enuff it will start to sound right. our notions of tuning in western music are more nurture than nature. If all you listened to was microtonal music (ie Harry Partch’s NewBand music) after awhile it would not offend your ear and indeed sound quite normal, but if you tried to play it with others not so accustomed they would likely find it intolerable.
D drones with Em tunes take a little getting use to I’ll admit. Certainly not for the musically pure, depending on ones definition of “pure.” I do shut them off when playing Am tunes, some Amaj tunes sound okay. I’m actually a big fan of playing fiddle tunes on the pipes, and making them work. I love the wailing of am tunes like “The Star of Munster.”
Consider other cultures music…some middle and far eastern, and consider the development of harmony and chordal structure. You know how the music world was divided when Bach strayed away from the purity of maj3rds, 4th, and 5ths. Minor 3rds, 7ths, or even such chordal units as 6ths, 9ths, diminish chords, augments, and others…were considered too rich for the puritans ear, too jazzy, something we should be careful not to indulge. I believe there was a time when parallel 2nds were popular–which would kind of be the equivilant to D/Em.
It’s kind of a tradition already (D/Em), wierd sounding at first, but not bad to have the stabilizer drones handy at the same time. The combo kinda brings a certain smile, and lifts one eyebrow in question of our sanity…which is already in question.
What is your opinion of simply transposing music into D or G when possible? I usually carry around a few spare copies of whatever I play just in case someone wants to play with and can sightread.
I don’t hesitate to render a tune in an awkward key into something more pipe friendly. Normally, if the offending tune is commonly played in a session, I don’t even think about playing my “version” there unless it’s specifically requested.
Oh, I like Star of Munster with D drones. I was playing in a session today, however and realized that I could barely hear my drones. I wondered how much it really mattered whether they were on or not.
I couldn’t remember the last time I played The Star of Munster by myself, I’m usually with the band, so I went and tried it with drones and liked it. I guess I shut them off because with the band they can’t be heard…and why waste the air? I’ll have to reverse my taste, as I think I got it backwards…I don’t like Amaj tunes with D drones (C# against a D…yikes!). I do like the Am with drones…at times it sounds too cool when the melody ends on A–the last chord is suppose to be Am–but the guitar is hitting D chord along with the drones. I’m with you.
I guess I could tell the key of a tune from it’s key signature on sheet music, but when playing by ear there are no clues. Is it just the ‘sound’ or the first note, or the range of the notes in the tune?
Ok, a question of free arts - I do agree with that. And the word taboo seems to be a bit too hard. Who feels comfortable to play e- or a- minor tunes with d-drones should do it.
But if you say ‘if you listen to an out-of-tune piano long enough it will start to sound right’ that’s exactly the point. The sound is strange somehow, but you can get used to it. (Can one get used to a Chanter that is out of tune too? Also a question of free arts? :roll: )
I may be wrong, but I guess that the habit of playing minor tunes with drones comes from the traditional fact, that on old pipes-sets (also on many sets in present) the stop-key in most cases has been very ‘unergonomic’ or there hasn’t been any stop key at all. The result was probably that ‘traditional musicians’ and especially the ears of pipers got used to this disharmony over the years.
It takes practise (& a good stop key), but for my taste its always a great effect if someone plays a set of tunes and stops/starts the drones before/after minor tunes in that set; especially in bands or sessions. It offers much more emphasis to the key and the character of the tunes. But as you said: Surely a question of taste…
I wonder why the stop key is so seldom used while playing tune-sets?
Sorry lads but I’m going to throw a completely contrary argument in here. Irish music is modal not major or minor, and I don’t think that you should look at tunes as purely E minor or A minor or anything like it. Within the various modes, the drones almost always have a valid place. Many years ago a piper from the european continent got a maker to build him a set with drones that could tune up to E. I heard him play the Kid on the Mountain on them and frankly they sounded like s**t. The pipes themselves were perfectly in tune and yet the end result was awful.
Instead have a listen to Willie Clancy playing Rakish Paddy or The Pipe on the Hob and tell me that the opening wailing C natural sounds wrong against the drones, ref all the previous saying they like The Star of Munster with drones. Or Johnny Doran playing the Fermoy Lasses and fault his drones against those gorgeous open rolled e’s in the first part.
Part of the joy of the pipes is that you can put notes together that music theory would say is wrong and stil produce some wonderful sounds.
I saw Martin Hayes and Dennis Cahill a few weeks back and Dennis managed to hold one chord through a whole part of one tune (can’t remember which, but “normally” you’d expect two or three chords in those 8 bars) but the effect was exactly the same a playing the tune against the drones on the uilleann pipes. There’s no right or wrong but I don’t think that european classical music theory has much relevance in traditional music.
I turn the drones off if they’re going out of tune mid flow but otherwise they stay on whatever the tune.
I was playing in a session today, however and realized that I could barely hear my drones. I wondered how much it really mattered whether they were on or not.