DVD Formats: reed making video

Uilleann Pipes
1

I’m transferring a video to DVD. It’s of a pro oboe player (Dr. Veazey) making a reed from start to finish in about 20 minutes. It’s somewhat different than UP reedmaking, but many of the tools, materials, and hand motions are the same. It’s a real eye-opener if you’ve never seen a pro up close explaining everything, including the different ‘tuning zones’ on the blades and how the vibration is transferred from the sides up through the spine. A lot of the principles are the same.

Anyway, what kind of DVD player do you all have? I’ve just learned that because my DVD-R burner/disks (on one machine) play okay on my computer’s DVD+RW player…they won’t copy from - to + (but I’m getting a dual format burner). And, just because it’s written on one machine and plays on my other–this doesn’t mean it will or won’t work on anyone elses DVD player. If I burn the video on a -R disk, will anyone have trouble playing it? I’m going to load it on the computer and write it in + format. Seems there’s no uniformity right now in the industry.

You’ve got to see this DVD…disks are so easy and cheap to mail. The professional tools and hand motions used with the double concave knife is a little stunning if you’re only use to sandpaper, utility knives, hand gouges, cylinders, and razer blades. The tying method of the blades on the staple is also extremely interesting. He uses no sandpaper on either side of the blades.

(PM me if you want a DVD copy)

2

Hi Lorenzo, that DVD sounds interesting.Brian Howard has been making the point about the professional attitude to reedmaking shown by classical musicians for quite some time now ( and suffers the usual partisan abuse from the usual boring quarters for his troubles). I have a copy of a DVD he made in which he makes a reed in less than 14 minutes, start to finish, and without editing. He did this at a tionol I attended this year and had it playing in the chanter in about the same time. This wasn’t rushed circus tricks-- just years of experience, more than three decades now, and a refusal to be hide-bound by people with a more limited approach to what is possible ( or ‘correct’ ). By the way, his website is down just now. I phoned him and he says it’s a problem with the server and he’ll sort it tomorrow.Happy New Year

3

I make a lot of DVD’s and use - and have yet to have a problem playing them on any machine. a few years ago there was the occasional player out there that didn’t like homemade disks but that was a disk problem not a - or + problem. Any player should be able to play a disk whether it’s - or +, it’s really more about the burning.

In any case, I’d also love to see a copy of the DVD. I am about to start making reeds (got a starter kit) and am a little nervous about it.

-Patrick

4

Lorenzo, I don’t know much about DVD burning, but suggest you use whatever method records a regular MPEG-2 format and plays on an ordinary stand-alone DVD player that you would attach to your TV, same as any normal commercial movie DVD. I recently bought NPU’s reedmaking DVD and it doesn’t play on anything I have, TV or PC. I suspect they faced the same questions you are now asking and made the wrong (for me) choice.

djm

5

Just to add more confusion to the DVD format mix, I googled “DVD different formats” and got this news clip written yesterday, confirming my worst fears:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/technology/10509933.htm?1c

Here’s a sample of the article:

The battle over DVD formats
When you decide to buy your new DVD player you’d better be ready to
choose sides, or you could find yourself staring at a blank screen.

BY MICHAEL HILTZIK
Los Angeles Times Service
Posted on Tue, Dec. 28, 2004

In what has become a depressingly common ritual, three major Hollywood studios – Viacom’s Paramount, General Electric’s Universal and Time Warner’s Warner Bros. – recently committed themselves to issuing movies for home viewing in a new high-definition video format known as HD-DVD.

What’s depressing about that?

Namely that three other studios (Walt Disney Co., Columbia/Tri-Star and Metro Goldwyn Mayer) have thrown in their lot with a different format known as Blu-Ray.

Nevertheless, both camps are dug in, shunning compromise. The Blu-Ray Disc Association, led by Sony (owner of Columbia/Tri-Star and, in short order, MGM), says its discs will have greater capacity than the competition – five times as much as today’s conventional DVDs and about 66 percent more than HD-DVD. The latter’s supporters, led by Toshiba, say HD-DVDs will be cheaper to produce and will reach the market as early as 2005, as much as a year ahead of Blu-Ray.

But the industry keeps marching over the same cliff.

Consider recordable DVDs. Early on, recording formats split into what are known as DVD Plus R/RW and DVD-R/RW formats, each backed by different manufacturers and each incompatible with a sizable subset of consumer DVD players and computer drives (and with each other).

Not long ago, when my wife and I contemplated buying my in-laws a DVD player so that they could watch recorded DVDs featuring their grandchildren, our plan crashed on this shoal: We couldn’t figure out whether any given player we’d buy them would play the DVDs recorded on any equipment we bought for ourselves.

Electronics retailers deserve a share of the blame, too. This week’s sale circular from Best Buy offers a Sony camcorder that records directly onto DVDs, which, it assures us, ``play in most players.‘’

In fact, the camcorder requires DVD-R/RW blanks, which may or may not work in your home player, and it won’t record on DV Plus R/RW discs.

6

Well, I’ll try one out Lorenzo, if you’re up to copying one.

7

I’d be interested as well. At least you can tell me what method you used and then I would will know what will or will not work with my equipment. I have no idea what format was used with the NPU DVD.

I guess it is a hardware conflict if software can’t overcome the differences between the various formats. I have been able to play parts of a couple of tracks of the NPU DVD if I take it apart file by file using RealPlayer, but WindowsMediaPlayer and QuickTime can’t make any of it, and my stand-alone DVD player doesn’t recognize it as a valid disc. :frowning:

djm

8

Hi DJM

Has the NPU sent you the correct type of disk for the Canada / USA area?

It may be that they have supplied you with a region 2 PAL format disk, whereas you would require a region 1 NTSC format disk (assuming that Canada has the same television standard as the US) - If you have a quality TV it may be possible that it will accept a PAL signal if you can set your DVD to region 2 PAL - check the manual for your DVD or the internet to see if your DVD player can be switched between regions.

This works for NTSC on a PAL system (this lets us view American DVDs over here) so I am hazarding a guess that it may work the other way as well.

David :thumbsup:

9

Yo, BigD. I put this question (PAL vs NTSC) to NPU, but haven’t had a response back from them (I suspect this is due to the holidays). There is no indication on the discs or packaging what the format is, but I know that a DVD can hold both video formats within the VOB files as long as the IFO file is set up for it.

I can play the first minute or so from one VOB file, but only with RealPlayer, and then it hangs. WindowsMediaPlayer recognizes all the chapters, but refuses to play any of them. This is what leads me to guess I am running into hardware difficulties, as Lorenzo has outlined. Again, I’m not an expert on DVD burning, so there’s probably something else going on that I’m not familiar with.

Hopefully I will be able to get this sorted in the new year.

Cheers!

djm

10

Lorenzo,
I would like a copy. I burn DVD’s on a Mac with an after market burner that will burn + or - DVD’s (Mac will only open a -DVD) so I burn both. I can only watch the - DVD’s on my Mac, but both +/- play on all the Players I have tried. I think that most of the players in the last 2 years that will play photo/mp3/AIFF cd’s/DVD’s don’t have a problem with =/- DVD’s. I think you will continue to see players that will play multiple formats in the future.

John

11

Hi DJM

I am not sure that this is hardware - it The may be down to the DVD decoding software in your PC - Windows Media player uses the decoding software on your machine - is it PowerDVD or something similar - these are usually preset to the region coding system of the area in which the system was bought or in some cases allow for a set number of changes (usually 5) whereupon it becomes fixed - this can be either in software or hardware.

Try region hacking your home DVD player - set it to region 0 if you can - this makes it region free and see if it recognises the disk then.

David

12

srfmowman and misterpatrick…click the PM in the tray at the bottom of my post here and send me your address. I’ll mail them out in a couple of days. There’s whole bunch of stuff on here that can be useful for UP reed making. Guarantee you’ll be amazed no matter how good you are. I’ve made a few excellent UP reeds, and many mediocre reeds, and many many poor ones. This video brought me to the edge of my seat in a few places.

13

Lorenzo, Now I’m on the edge of MY seat! Check your PMs..and thanks.

Regarding the DVD format issue. I had this issue with the first NPU tape I ordered..I didn’t order it from NPU and assumed that the person sending it would realize I was in the US and needed NTSC format…unfortunately, it was PAL…I found a place that for $14US (same price as the postage to return it!) would convert video tape in PAL format to a DVD which works fine.

You may be able to find someone with a setup that can convert if for you if all else fails (or hopefully, NPU will help sort it out).

Regards,
Gary

14

The Post Office was closed early on Friday, so I didn’t get the DVDs off until today. They are in the mail. I must have sent out a couple dozen. I included a CD of my Gallagher B pipes too…nothing fancy just practicing arrangements on a couple sets of tunes, but you can hear what they sound like.

While watching the instruction tape, newbies should keep in mind that not all techniques are applicable to UP reed making, such as the warm water application! :astonished: Probably the most interesting thing you will get out of the video is how the hands are suppose to work, and the knife. Everyone does it a little different, but this style of scraping the reed, holding the knife, and the motion of the knife, is a good example of a seldom seen professional at work. Just the wrist motion is something that may take months or years of practice to get right…assuming the blade has been sharpened with the burr curled in the right direction. As the DVD explains, this is a scraping/shaving technique, not a rough cutting or whittling workshop. This is the art right down to it’s finest.

Also of interest will be the tying technique, the way he ties one end to the clamp, a couple wraps around the blades and staple, and aligning the two blades with the constant tension and tightening in rotation. He explains the necessity of doing it this way.

Also, knowing where on the blades to scrape and where not to…to get the different responses you desire, along with different tones and tunings. This should apply to both instrument reeds…the oboe and UP. Lots of good stuff, even for pro UP reed makers.

15

Most Excellent!!! Thanks a million. Can’t wait to hear your B set. :slight_smile:

16

Hi!

If you want to cut down costs you can fit a 20 min video on a CD and burn it as a mini DVD. Standard option in Nero and other burner software.

/MarcusR

17

Yep. It seems there’s lots of conflicts, but lots of options, too. Some burners will burn only -R or +R, or some will do both, the difference being in the format of the files layed down on the disc itself. Then you get into the discs themselves, where you can buy blank discs that will only accommodate -R or +R, or the discs that will hold both at the same time, but these are really expensive.

It seems the NPU DVDs are in +R format, so that the standalone DVD player for my TV won’t recognize them, but with a software upgrade, the DVD drive on my PC can now read them. However, my PC’s DVD-ROM is not able to read the Andreas Rogge section. Everything else plays fine. So now I’m wondering if I need a firmware upgrade on my PC’s DVD-ROM, or if the disc is pooched. I’m going to try this on some other DVD+R drives tonight to see if this is the case.

djm

18

Thanks Marcus, I may try that sometime. This video is 27 minutes long. Right now, I can buy a pack of 30 blank DVDs -R or +R (up to 8x burning speed) for the same price I can buy a 30 pack of blank CDs. About $16 at WAL-Mart, which is just a little over 50 cents apiece. Cheap enough. Occasionally, our local Staples store has them on sale for half that.

19

Just a follow-up: I took the NPU DVDs to my local OEM shop and we tried them on several players. The newest Bandai (sp?) drives thought they were blank discs ready to be written on. We used a software package called Nero to determine that they are DVD-R discs. Pioneer DVD can read all except the Rogge chapters. LG DVD drive could read some of the Rogge chapters, but not all. Panasonic DVD does not recognize these as valid discs.

Also, the guys at the shop pointed out that these DVDs are recorded on the same consumer-level discs that you or I might buy (similar to what Lorenzo mentioned buying at Wal-Mart), versus the professional formats you would receive on a movie or game disc. Conclusion - someone is just pumping these out on a regular PC, not from a professional DVD publisher.

Although there are no scratches on the DVD with the Rogge parts on it, they pointed out certain patches of discolouration on the back, and suggested it may be a bum disc. Next step, find out what NPU’s replacement policies are.

djm

20

David, I glad that you have taken it upon yourself to do some ‘leg work’ regarding these DVDs. I was this close to ordering the reedmaking DVD…but now I think I will wait pending the outcome of your efforts. I’m hoping, REALLY HOPING, that NPU isn’t producing these things by the cheapest, least professional means possible.