Considering that the purpose of a ban on elephant ivory trading is to preventing extinction of the animal, and that Mammoths are already extinct;
(No. 1) Do people in the Uilleann Piping or Scottish Piping fraternaties have any experience in explaining to customs people that ones pipes are adorned with Mammoth, not Elephant Ivory?
(No. 2) How likely when Customs open an instrument are they to look for ‘illegal elephant ivory’?
(No.3) How likely are they to know that it is not synthetic?
(No. 4) How could they definitively know whether your ivory was elephant or mammoth?
Mammoth ivory is legally traded in, have a receipt from the dealer on you to prove where it came from.
People who know about the stuff can tell what sort of ivory they are looking at, I have had one person explain to me why the ivory on my pipes was african and not indian elephant [just before anyone starts, it was an antique tusk]. Would your average custom man know. Don’t think so but would you chance it if you haven’t the documentation?
I think it depends on where you’re going, and on luck. I heard that in Canada they just confiscate everything that looks ivory. Other places you probably can say it’s plastic and they won’t know the difference. You probably should ask before travelling.
Peter’s advice is perhaps the most important thing to remember: have a receipt from the maker which specifies the type of ivory. Mammoth ivory actually looks quite different from elephant ivory, and has a different “consistency.” I’ve shipped mammoth ivory to Ireland, had pipes shipped here, blah blah blah, with absolutely no problem.
Customs Canada is pretty awful; I don’t know that I’d ship anything into Canada (at all, really). I stupidly brought elephant-ivory-mounted pipes into Canada when I moved up here last summer. I didn’t have any paperwork or anything on them . . . with me, at least. Last time I went home (to the US) I took them as a carry-on, and nobody gave them a second glance. I’ve got a couple of friends who also have elephant-ivory pipes, neither of whom has ever brought the paperwork to cross the US-Canada border, and neither of whom has ever had a problem.
As for the intelligence/experience of customs officials in general, you’d be surprised. My Wooffs were delayed in Customs on the way into the US (just due to a backlog). I called and spoke to a US Customs official, who said, “Oh, yeah, that’s mammoth ivory. That stuff’s legal.” He talked about how (a) they look really different, and (b) if there’s a question they look at the grain pattern. To a trained eye, it’s easy to tell the species of ivory. It has something to do with the angle of the hashing (you’ll see diagonal lines in some cuts of ivory, and these lines hit each other at a prescribed angle based on the species).
In other words, they get (at least in the US) pretty good training on how to spot contraband.
The puck of my bass drone (or resonator) is to the left under my name, and even to the untrained eye I think it looks quite distinct from elephant ivory.
If customs authorities are interested enough to check, they will know the difference between synthetic and genuine ivory.
They may well know the difference between elephant and mammoth ivory, and may appreciate the difference w.r.t conservation.
This is good and useful information, and thanks for it.
One last question;
Will the knowledgeable customs officer accept a certificate from a maker stating that elephant ivory is antique, or would more detailed proof be required?
leremarkable.
Afraid not.ye will need a CITES CERTIFICATE properly validated from your local CITES Office.It is dated and can be a bit of a bother but ye will need to have one. http://www.cites.org/
will give ye an idea.
Slán Go Foill
Liam
Not knowing the exact details on what goes in to CITES certification, it goes back to proof that the elephant ivory is older than the 1990 115-country ban on import/export of elephant ivory. So, a letter, etc from an expert or pipemaker would be needed, most likely.
If the ivory on the set speaks for itself, i.e. set looks old, ivory looks old, the set probably sails through Customs. If one is sending it back and forth, many times, especially via shipping, more concern emerges.
Most of the time, Customs barely looks at the ivory. In the past few years, the X-Ray has caused a lot of concern and attention but I always hung around to let them know that it was a musical instrument and no problem after that.
Yeah, actually, I have been told that CITES certification is not necessary if the item can be shown to predate the treaty (1990, as Jim mentioned). So, for antique stuff, proving is easy.
It gets much harder for modern stuff, since there IS legal ivory on the market (legal elephant ivory), just like there is legal elephant leather. Of course, I’m not sure what makes it legal: if it’s from culling herds, or old elephants, or whatever.
Were you (leremarkable) thinking of trying to obtain some elephant ivory, or some mammoth?
In some ways, in my own opinion, mammoth is much nicer-looking. It’s not actually fossilized, so it’s still got a creamy ivory-like texture. It’s availble in lots of different colors/patterns, I think perhaps based on what it was near in the ground/ice. Tans, browns, yellows, even pinks can be seen in a many specimens. There are a lot of folks who sell the stuff. It can be a really nice experience, picking out the ivory for your own set of pipes.
I’m sure I’ve read something about this somewhere … something about a customs officer who never forgets or a chanter that sticks to the roof of your mouth … or was that the other way round?
I am pretty sure this is not true. CITES is required for ALL elephant ivory less than 100 years old, according to the CITES and Elephant-ivory-specific treaties. In brief:
if it contains elephant (or marine mammal) ivory less than 100 years old, you need a CITES sertificate to take it over the border
CITES certification requires not only that the instrument predate the 1998/90 convention, but that the ivory itself be pre-CITES (pre 1977 if memory serves)
You can’t get CITES certification for commerce, i.e. you can’t legally sell it across the border, you can only get certification to take it with you as a personal effect.
different rules may apply to certain native-american/inuit artifacts, but if you make pipe mounts out of them it doesn’t count :roll:
[Lastly - beware of advice on internet web sites dealing with this, especially if they are involved in ivory commerce - some web sites do give disinformation since it doesn’t help their trade to tell you “no, don’t order our products”. I have seen stuff on the web that’s in blatant violation of some of the Fish and Wildlife regulations.]
I know because I have gone through this with an elephant-ivory mounted set of pipes made in 1989 from pre-1977 ivory - I took it from the US to Ireland, and needed CITES permits on BOTH sides (one export permit, one “reciprocal import permit”). THis information was correct and current as of 1997.
Bill is correct. The application for CITES clearly states that there must be proof that the ivory is greater than 100 years old or else it needs a certificate. The certificate is only granted if you then can prove that the ivory was legally taken, sold/imported (before the treaty date). If you can’t prove either age or legal acquisition, then you are out of luck and are taking some level of risk if the package is opened and inspected. If you are prepared to take the risk, I would just state that the contents are a woodwind instrument and nothing more.
