Hello! im a whisteler taking a strole into the seedey world of cheep flutes so i dont spend a fortune on somthing i cant play.
i have settled on a Dixon Flute in D, the one piece, polymer, £25 version.
as a beginner, and a beginner warey of cheep instruments, what ‘quirks’ does this instrument have that i should be aware of, stuff that, if i know now, will stop me developing bad habits in the fututre?
feel absolutly free to de-rail this thread with recomendatyions for alternatives, however having spent more then i had planed on shiney whistles; money is absolutly an object!
I haven’t played the one-piece, but I used to have the three-piece (which is supposed to be better). I found it to be a little unforgiving for a newbie, but probably would be OK for an experienced fluter. I would HIGHLY recommend you go with a Tipple instead - it is the opposite - i.e. very forgiving and easy to get a good sound out of right away. It’s a little more than 25 pounds, but you might be able to find a used one. My only recommendation would be to add the Fajardo wedge.
This time last year I was a guitar player/bouzouki player who needed a D low whistle for a couple of tunes for a wedding gig. I opted for the Dixon polymer low D based on price, noticed that for a couple of quid more I could get the duo set with both the whistle and the flute head, so said, “what the heck?”, even though I had no intention of really getting into the flute. (The duo Dixon with the flute head would be essentially the same as the one piece, but tuneable)
A couple of weeks of enjoyable messing with the flute head on the tube was enough to convince me of two things:
[1] I really wanted to learn the flute
[2] I needed a flute that was better suited to Irish music than the Dixon.
I upgraded almost immediately to an M&E (bought used from eBay) and haven’t looked back.
I’m sure other folks here will give you better information than I can, and you obviously have to work within your budget, but I don’t think the Dixon will get you very far beyond where it got me. That is, it might help you decide if you want to continue to learn to play flute or not. If you do, you’ll most likely want to upgrade. If you don’t, you won’t have lost a stack of money.
(BTW, no disrespect intended towards Dixon instruments. I think they make some very nice instruments in their price range and I have a couple of their whistles. I just don’t think that that particular flute is one of their better products, at least not for Irish music.)
thanks for all the advice, you have put the doubt in me!
i may still get the cheep one and then, if i like it, upgrade to somthing made from wood.
but i think that given i am unsure about how well i will adapt to it im not sure i can afford a big first instance purchace.
If you just want to try something out at home, I can lend you an old wooden one that a friend lent me to have a look at (I could bring it down to the pub). It’s a bit out of tune with itself, so you might not want to play it after a few days, but if you just want to try out your embachure and compare fingering against your low whistle then you’re welcome. The wood/plastic thing is a bit of a red herring, there are some great polymer flutes out there and more than as many awful wooden ones!
Nothing wrong with the Dixon to get you going (apart from not coming apart). But remember you’re not starting from scratch. You’ve studied ITM, have good low whistle technique and enough chops to play some session tunes. If you’re genuinely set on transferring to flute get something that you’ll use for a year or to keep for playing in the rain. You could save for a three-piece Dixon (there was a good bargain on one for sale on this board yesterday) or wander into Hobgoblin downtown and see what they have under the counter (or ask Jem or anyone else on this message board if they’ve got something to get you started).
PS. don’t rush yourself with too many instruments, learning and listening more about ITM and more tunes/sets might turn out to be more advantageous to you in the long run
I’d take Mark up on his offer…a loaner flute, even if not in the best of tune, is a great way to get started.
I do agree the Dixon one piece, or even the two piece, is simply a gateway instrument. Heck, I never bought one of these basic flutes because if you have any tools and $2 for 8 feet of PVC you can make about 4 flutes using these instructions: http://www.cwo.com/~ph_kosel/designs.html
If you use the low D instructions, you’ll get a better flute than the Dixon one or two piece because the PVC is thicker and it cuts a better embouchure hole. Plus, you can undercut on the tone holes and improve your second octave a bit (cylindrical flutes tend to go flat in the second octave - you have to lip them up to pitch.
The Dixon 3 piece really is a nice, basic flute. I had one…nothing wrong with it except the lack of tuning slid which became an issue playing with a demented box player with reeds so flat I needed a tuning slide - in most other situations the tennon is long enough to tune to normal players. The three piece is your traditional conical flute, but because of that it’ll cost you a lot more than the one piece or two piece models…but it is worth it.
So either make your own one piece PVC flute (you’ll need the extra PVC because you’ll likely screw up one or two - but you will end with a very playable flute) or borrow Mark’s slightly wonky one.
After a few weeks, you’ll know whether you’re hooked or not. While I like low whistle, the flexibility of the flute is amazing…
ill certanly take you up on the free lon-er offer, it is, after all, the cheepist solution
‘transferring’ to flute is perhaps the wrong word, im adding it to my toolkit, specifically because it will be trickey to play… The same reason i got the Shaw low d rather then somthing easy blowing…
You might want to consider buying a proper keyless flute in blackwood. If you find out that the flute is not an instrument you want to play after all, just sell it. The sale price will be reduced of course, but not a whole lot, if it is in such a new condition. So if you have the money at hand, I would recommend this method.
If it comes down to money, it´s all about how much you want to play the flute. If you want to play bad enough, you will always find a way to get the money. You probably own many things you rarely use. So you can sell them, or become a prostitute as a worst case scenario
With all due respect, I actually think Abraxas is right. I started on a Hammy. I also have a boxwood Casey Burns, an old German keyed flute and an M & E polymer (mainly for camping and for playing at work). Had I started on the two latter flutes I wouldn’t have kept playing. Okay, truthfully I started on a Gannon flute my dad leant me (hated it), but I only played it for about a week before my Hammy came.
If you think you want to learn flute, start on something decent (not that my others aren’t decent, but they do take some lip to play) that is fairly easy to get a sound out of. Casey Burns’s flutes are relatively inexpensive, easy on the lip and hold their value. They’re a fantastic way to start. And, if you decide the flute just isn’t for you, you can sell it for very close to what you paid for it. Given the time you should theoretically put into practice, you won’t have lost anything. If you decide you the flute is for you, you’ll be much happier having started with a decent flute.
Mark
PS Tipples are also an excellent way to get a taste of fluting for little cash.
PPS Oh, he said be a prostitute, I thought he said sell your prostate. Well, carry on then.
I have being playing the dual head Dixon polymer flute for one year now (just started irish flute last year). I rarely use the low whistle head and always play with the flute head.
To my surprise this is a really affordable instrument, well tuned, with loud sound (for a beginner) and nice tone, easy to play, easy to make it sound good… and it needs no care.
So, after having played with this 60€ instrument for one year I decided I should go one step beyond and bought a M&E polymer flute (keyless of course). I just recieved it this morning. I have been playing it only for 30min.
I’m quite surprised, sounds like the M&E isn’t exatly in tune like the Dixon I have : the lower octave is pitched even lower and I have to pinch my lips more to have it sound quite right. Also the volume is lower. And I feel like I need more air. So my first impression is quite disapointing regarding the good things I had heard about M&E and the price comparison between the Dixon I own and this one.
So my first guess is that I need to get used to this new flute and probably it has a special way to be played and blown. Having played the dixon for one year with reasonably pleasant tone I thought my blowing technique was ok. Maybe it’s not ?
Every flute has it’s own way to be blowed. It takes at least a month to get properly used to it. Blowing technique takes a lot to master, if you’ve been playing for a year you can be sure you still have a lot to learn (i’ve been playing for almost 3 years and i’m still not satisfied by my tone)
Were you playing the Dixon PVC or his delrin 3 piece flute (the later is much better than many people give it credit for being).
The M&E is tuned more like an older flute. The low D is slightly flat so you can really honk and get a hard D, F#s are slightly flat, and the A and B are easy to blow sharp.
FWIW, there is not a flute around you don’t have to blow somewhat in tune. It does take time to adjust to a different instrument unless you’ve been playing for a long time (I’ve been playing 8 years and still have miles to go to be really happy with my playing).
I’ve now owned 2 and played 6 M&E flutes. All were in tune - at least as in tune as any flute I’ve played - once you adjust to it. I played an old style M&E just last weekend that my friend swore was out of tune (he was just given in a couple of weeks before - he has been playing less than a year), when I played it, it was miraculously in tune.
One question, though…be sure and check the headjoint cork. It should be about one bore’s width diameter back from the embouchure hole. Depending upon the position of the headjoint cork (and your blowing style), you might need to move it further in or out if the upper and lower octaves are out of tune (try blowing a low hard D, middle D and then play an upper D - they should be very close which means the cork is in the optimal position).
Having come from what I think is the Dixon cyclindrical flute, you likely had to lip up to get the upper octave in tune (all cylindrical flutes are flat in the upper octave unless they have a faradejo type wedge). My overwhelming guess is that you’re accustomed to blowing a cylindrical flute so the M&E seems odd to you.
I meant the Dixon PVC in two parts also known as the “Dual Head”. Its the same as the one in 1 part (PVC) but tunable. Yes it’s cylindrical and I’m used to it. I have been playing a concert (metal) flute as well for some time before and as you know it’s cylindrical so I may have to adjust my blowing and my embouchure.
On the Dixon, I need to slightly cover part of the blowing hole with my lower kips to get good sound. By the way, the Dixon I have has a somewhat rehearsed head, like a concert flute have (the place where you put your lips is higher than the rest of the flute). On the M&E the head hole is at the same level as the other holes. Make quite a difference. I’m sure this is the reason it feel so strange to me and I feel like I’m loosing a lot of power there when I blow. I really need to readapt. The flute sounds in tune with itself, which should be normal since I heard the M&E flute maker checks all flutes before shipping them, and being a polymer flute I don’t think its tuning has changed. Definitivly my technique.
I’ll spend some weeks only playing the M&E, forgetting about the Dixon (which I like a lot allthough) so to be sure I’m getting used to M&E. After that, I’ll come back to you again if I have still questions
Sounds like a good plan to focus on the M&E for a bit. You do need to blow more down into the embouchure hole on an Irish flute than you do on a Boehm style flute. I played Boehm for a bit as a kid (a good 30 years ago! Ack, I’m old).
The M&E will definitely have a darker wooden sound, whereas the Dixon 1 or 2 piece will have a sound a bit closer to the Boehm flute.
I just want to add that I really like a lot of Dixon’s stuff. I think his 3 piece polymer flute (and the wooden ones in the same style he used to make) is really quite good. My main whistle is the Dixon trad.
On your 2 piece…did he have a wedge or reverse taper in the head joing (like on a Boehm flute - not the lip plate which I know he now uses)? I’m curious about the upper octave - did you have to lip it up a bit?
Tony is always innovating, and I was just curious about his current 2 piece model.
I’m not sure I understand your question about the lip plate, on my dixon there is no need to lip up the upper octave, I just tighten my lips a bit more and the sounds goes one octave up like on the boehm flute.
The flute head is great but unlike the boehm flute or the M&E flute, I align the opposite border of the head hole with the center of the other holes… (so the head hole is more toward me than the other holes). On the Boehm flute, as on the M&E, the head hole is perfectly aligned with the finger holes to get a proper sound.
Anyway I’ve now been playing my M&E for two hours and I’m ok with it : I’m getting used to it and my tone is now in tune, even the hard D, the tone is ok, more “wooden” (even if polymer, it’s intersting to see that the shape of the flute is more responsible of the sound than the material), I now like it very much. My tone is still less loud than on the dixon but I guess it’s normal because the M&E flute is far thicker. Damn only a few hours and I’m starting to fell in love with this new little peace of plastic ^^ I hope my Dixon won’t get jealous.
