he talked, a lot, about his career, and his street playing. wasted about 10-15 minutes just listening to him.
We got into some scales, and played mary had a little lamb in synch from a book, but then he got into his stories again.
I’m unable to hold my violin without support of my left hand. Despite my teacher trying several times to position it correctly on my shoulder, it slips and feels awkward. I can’t afford a shoulder rest, either.
When I can hold it on my shoulder without left-hand support, I cannot bend my fingers around the neck to reach the strings, it feels like an impossible movement. Does this take practice, exercises? Tips, anyone?
If your teacher was talking about himself as much as you say he was, it strikes me as very unprofessional.
I’d start shopping for another teacher if the second or third lesson turns out the same.
Most new fiddlers complain at first about not being able to hold the fiddle without support of their fiddle hand
and how difficult it is to get their fingers around the fiddle to play the fiddle with their finger tips.
I’m surprised your fiddle teacher didn’t have some sample shoulder rests to let you try some shoulder rests to see if that helps.
Not everybody needs a shoulder rest to play fiddle
but if you do need a shoulder rest to adjust ergonomics favorably when playing the fiddle, you can’t afford not to have a shoulder rest.
Well yeah. It takes practice.
For me it takes a yoga practice in addition to a fiddle practice.
Give it a chance. I think you can write the first lesson off as the teacher just getting his bearings, and maybe justifying himself by listing his experience. If he spends the next lesson babbling about himself, then that’s the time to reconsider.
It sounds to me like a shoulder rest may be essential to you. I can’t support my violin hands-free without one. With one it is no problem. The one I use was about £5 GBP so I’d guess you should be able to get one for about £5, $10 or whatever your local equivalent is (sorry, not sure where you are). There are £30 ones, but I have found the cheap one quite adequate.
Violin/fiddle is physically the most difficult instrument I have tried. It does feel pretty awkward. Positioning is totally all-important, and even when I have carefully, step-by-step put all my limbs etc where they should be, and consciously got rid of any tension… it STILL feels awkward. But I’m sure if we stick with it we’ll adjust
I find that my left elbow is a problem. If I’m not very careful I get pain in it, so I’m having to constantly check position and relaxation of that arm. I also stop to stretch it and “shake it out” after each practice piece.
I also find the fingering position and hand angle VERY alien, although it’s coming. I foresee interesting times when I start to attempt fingering with my pinky. I also cannot envisage ever being able to execute vibrato on a violin - the orientation for that seems completely wrong compared to guitar or mando - but we’ll see.
It’s gonna be hard work, Derkk. Stick with it mate. Your next lessons might be really good. If they’re not, then see if there is another teacher who might work better for you.
o You’ve picked a difficult instrument to master, even for people with lots of music experience. So don’t be discouraged. If you love the sound of the fiddle, let that love be your guide. Remember that every great player whose beautiful tone sets your heart beating has travelled the same path that you’re about to follow, one step at a time. And in a few years, that great player can be you.
o Music lessons often take the form of half the time spent reviewing the last lesson’s assignments, and half spent preparing for the next. So a very first lesson may be a bit light on content, since there’s no past lesson to review. Learning music is a holistic experience involving mind as well as ear; and a well-placed explanation or insight can sometimes be worth a dozen exercises. Also, communication is a two-way street. Keep in mind that with all his talking, your teacher may be trying to draw our your musical reactions, attitudes, knowledge, and tastes. These are all important things for your teacher to get to know about you if he is to be an effective teacher.
That said, if after a lesson or two you still find there’s too much talk and not enough playing, by all means speak up and make your concerns known. Different students have different modes of learning, and a good teacher will adjust. Otherwise, by all means seek out another better suited to your expectations.
o As with others, my bony shoulder and clavicles make it difficult for me to support the instrument without a rest. In your case, you should consider a shoulder rest to be as essential a part of your instrument as the bow and strings. Perhaps the shop where you got your instrument can supply one free of charge or at minimal cost. A simple pad or sponge may be all you need. Or you can improvise your own with a soft folded cloth or small towel, or a soft household sponge attached with rubber bands. Even a basic commercial pad or bar-type rest shouldn’t run more than £10 or so.
To clarify, my shoulder rest is the kind that MTG refers to as bar-type. Having tried cloth and sponge pads I find the bar-type more comfortable and stable.
The one I use appears almost identical to Buddhu’s. (manufactured by Kun) I couldn’t do without it, at least without extreme awkwardness.
The other thing is, there are scarcely any instruments (the whistle may be a rare exception) where just getting started with the thing isn’t an awkward experience at first. Learning to feel natural with the instrument is as difficult and practice-dependent as playing tunes. I mean, they go hand in hand, but the whole process will be seem very unnatural until…well…until you’ve been at it for quite a while. And I mean, quite a while.
When I stop to think of it, the fingers on your left hand are doing a trick which isn’t really called for in any other human occupation I can think of. But they’ll learn in time.
Frustration is a part of the process. I agree with Buddhu about giving the teacher another lesson or two to get down to business.
Derkk, I cannot say that I am surprised that you were dissappointed, considering all the time and effort you put into it prior to your first lesson! I always feel guilty about my first lessons with people, because they do tend torward that chatty. You do have to lay the groundwork. If I had more time in my schedule, I would probably make the first lesson an hour. I echo the other comments here. Give it a few lessons.
If you can’t afford a shoulder rest, just find a sponge and a rubberband, or even a towel across your shoulder may help. Holding the fiddle is honestly not an easy thing to do. My son got some lessons from a suzuki teacher, and she started teaching him to hold the instrument first before he ever sounded a note. He was only given a rectangular box with a ruler taped to it as his first fiddle. Until he proved he could hold it without dropping it, he was not given his real fiddle.
It’s awkward, and it takes time, practice and patience!!! And to my original point, I think you might have over-invested yourself in this first lesson. Spread out that energy a bit. You will need it.
You can also take charge of the direction of the lesson, if you feel the conversation is getting too involved. Such tactful questions/requests as: “Should we tune up now?” or “Shall I play XXXX for you now?” or “Could you show me how to do YYYY technique?”
My teacher loves politics and I’ve had to tactfully end the conversation several times.
Remember that teaching is a job for many. They get just as tired of it or just as distracted as any other situation. This is where tact comes in. Also in the case of Irish music, the teacher is often the gateway to an entire culture. This does involve some conversation.
You know, even the flute felt like it was trying to fly out of my hands as I played it the first few times I tried playing mine, and then rapidly holding it became second nature and I’ve never had to think about it again.
The fiddle is a much more difficult instrument, physically; it’s likely that the muscles you need to deploy to hold and play it successfully are, in you at this stage, both drastically underdeveloped and not used to working independently of other muscles nearby. The human body is a lean machine; anything you don’t need and use, regularly, gets pared away by life to its core. You can develop or redevelop what you need, and will if you keep at it but it takes time and practice.
So don’t be discouraged after the first lesson. The learning curve with a violin is, initially, more of a curb than a curve–there’s a steep but fortunately not high hump you have to get over, right at the start. You have no good idea how apt you’ll be with a fiddle until you’ve been at it for two or three months of regular(ish) practice.
Like all musical pursuits, half an hour or even twenty minutes of practice a day is much more beneficial than four hours once a week.
Dude, yours might be… mine’s more of a chunky old banger…
Indeed. I’d say that’s especially true with fiddle. The unfamiliarity and awkwardness of some of the positions, and the tendency to tense up, mean that long practice sessions are more likely to result in problems. Half an hour or so a day until it starts to feel a little more natural is the way I’d go. In fact it is the way I did go for the first couple of weeks. Now I’m up to 45mins to an hour a day.
Also, intermittent practice over the course of many hours can be great too. Like if you are puttering around the house all Sunday; just leave the fiddle out and keep going back to it. If your muscles tense up, shake them out and take a break.
Thank you guys so much, your posts have seriously boosted my will to play the violin. I do plan on getting a shoulder rest, and have 20 dollars to spend on it. Does that sound like it would get me a reasonable one?
I’d like to comment more on what you guys said but I don’t have the time! In a rush right now, but I’ll get back to you on my progress with this problem.
You guys are a great help.
(btw, side question: IS there a difference between the violin and the fiddle? Physically I mean. if there is, how is it different? You all use the word fiddle, while I’m used to violin, but it’s no problem. I just want to make sure we’re all talking about the same kind of instrument, haha.)
No major differences. Setup is often different, like bridge, scoop in fingerboard, nut height etc. But essentially the same thing. The difference is the music, environment, and the attitude. Classical is serious listening music, while fiddle music is mainly dance music, music for fun. Discipline vs. diversion.
Others might know more, but I think violin and fiddle have the same root word, back in the day. Languages caused the separation. Violin is the southern Europe name(Italian) and Fiddle is the Germanic or English descendant of the origanal Latin word. At least that’s my understanding. Any Language experts care to comment?
FWIW, you can call it either, but you might fit in better with the fiddle world if you call it fiddle. Not as bad as the hack who calls tunes songs no matter how you try to convince him otherwise. But there are those who might be a but stuffy about terminology.
I also find the fingering position and hand angle VERY alien, although it’s coming. I foresee interesting times when I start to attempt fingering with my pinky. I also cannot envisage ever being able to execute vibrato on a violin - the orientation for that seems completely wrong compared to guitar or mando - but we’ll see
Same here, exactly. The way I hold the neck, there’s no way I can rock my fingers and vibrato, it’s disappointing, but I hope a shoulder rest will free up that issue.
I’m giving my teacher another chance, not like I have a choice, he made me pay 60 dollars in advance for four lessons.
It IS awkward to hold it, unbelievably. Does anyone have any suggestions for finger exercises off the violin? To sort of stretch out those unused muscles, me being right handed.
I go back and forth to my violin, I give up forever, I pick it up again and try out a tune, I drop it back in it’s box, frustrated, but then I go back later.
You guys gave me some great ideas and tips, and wisdom about the fiddle, so thanks. I think I may have given up if I hadn’t read your posts about your own difficulties.
