Please do not add anything to this thread. I’m embarrassed that a question I had about conditions for music in Ireland would be unable to be answered without this breakdown. Let’s let it go.
[ This Message was edited by: susnfx on 2002-07-17 08:21 ]
“The Troubles” - sounds like perfect british understatement. I would rather call it a civil war.
I spend a lot of time in Ireland and as far as I can see ,the music is one of the only things that has no borders (and the Guiness)
Phil.
I also spend a lot of time in Eire, and “The Troubles” to a lot of Irish people are “up there and not here”. They, like 87% of the British believe in a united Ireland. Where the music’s concerned, they carry on playing the stuff regardless (and reserve the protest songs for North American tours). The Maze and H Block no longer exist as far as I’m aware; I suggest you watch up to date TV programmes. I agree with Phil - the music and Guinness know no boundaries.
The documentaries I was watching were up to date. They were looking back and discussing (both very well-balanced it appeared to me) with people from both sides what has happened over the past 40 years or so. I actually have the answer I was seeking in the responses I’ve gotten so far - that the music really has no boundaries. (And I did call it a civil war.)
[ This Message was edited by: susnfx on 2002-07-16 09:00 ]
Hi Susan,
I just got back from a week visiting my relatives in Ireland, who live in two towns across the border from each other (which is a pain; one night’s drinking is paid for in Euros, and the next night is in pounds!). Many of them, on both sides of the border, are musicians; but one cousin who didn’t play anything when he was younger, learned to play mandolin (and speak Irish!) during his years in the H-Blocks. According to him, many young men and women who spent time in prison used their time in there to study not just Irish history, but traditional culture as well. So if anything, the war may have actually added to some people’s appreciation/knowledge of traditional music.
gogo
I’m also just back from a trip to the Republic (my wife is from Dublin). I’ve got to say that during several trips back there I’ve found the Troubles to be very far from the general consciousness (as far as our friends and family living in the Republic are concerned). I use the term Troubles deliberately, as it is the term that every Irish person I know uses. I’ve never heard any of them refer to it as a civil war, not even our friends from the North. When asked, most express a profound sadness about these events (as most feeling human beings would) and a general contempt for combatants on all sides. We were in Ireland during the Omagh bombing, and everyone felt sure that that would be the final shot in this madness.
Naturally, there has been a lot of music written about the war/Troubles, both that which praises one side or the other, and that which condemns them both. War has a way of making the songs written about it seem more profound.
But if you look at what is popular in Ireland today, very little of it (whether in trad, pop, fusion, or other genres) refers directly back to what’s happening in the North. I couldn’t say whether people are taking an “if we ignore it, maybe it’ll go away” position, or a “tell it to the hand” approach, but either way, it doesn’t seem to be high profile in people’s consciousness.
Cheers.
Saw the Maze show late last nite. Very up to date. When you stand back and look, it’s incredible that they let those guys (from both sides) out for so many murders, especially Stone.
I have always avoided this topic as I have nothing of substance to add to it. Its beyond most of us except the directly affected, I think. We just don’t know what its like except a lesson in why we need to find peace amonst ethnic conflicts.
I was there in April, in Crossmaglen, watching British soldiers in camo, helmets and bad looking assault rifles run from house to house covering each other with helicopters hovering overhead. Civil war? Those guys weren’t born there, they are soldiers in an occupying army. Ask anyone in Crossmaglen. Two months before I got there they had beaten up marchers in a peaceful picket line, many of them teenagers, more than 20 needing medical attention afterward. Many citizens of the Republic do feel that it’s not their problem, but for the Irish in the North, it’s serious as a heart attack.
[ This Message was edited by: blackhawk on 2002-07-18 16:18 ]
This is a highly emotive topic, and way OT…
At the end of the day, there are good people and less than good people in all lands, and many forgettable histories. The real plus is that the modern day British and Irish are good friends and share a great deal. More of the same…may the tunes sing and the Guinness flow
The troubles have affected every part of life in N. Ireland, but we go on, praying that someday the “hard men” on both sides will stop.
As far as music, you have to know where and when to play “The Sash” or the “Soldier’s Song”.
In an interesting twist, there has been a resurgence in learning Gaelic in the North, even among the “Prods”. (I’m told that the Unionists learned it in prison so that they could understand what the Provos were saying to each other). This has given a bit of a boost to Celtic music in and of itself.
The music and instruments cross the border freely. If you want to hear a group of very talented folk-styled Celtic musicians with a strong message about the Troubles, check out a Christian group called “The Crossing”.
http://www.grrrrecords.com/thecrossing/
Ian
I didn’t consider the question off-topic as long as it stayed on the MUSIC. Very interesting and heart-felt replies. I guess the real bottom line I was interested in was whether or not people on differing sides can play music together - professional or otherwise.
Susan
As as British person, living very peaceable and peacefully in The Republic, I agree with Phil’s and other’s comments about the music and the porter!
I also feel that this thread was ill-advised (as it is potentially extremely emotive) and that some comments, already, are coming close to proving the old adage that ‘a little knowledge is a dangerous thing’.
Steve
Okay. End of thread. No one else should post. I apologize if anyone was offended. It was absolutely not my intent. I have many questions about many situations in this world we live in, and I certainly only have a little education about the majority of them, but I’ve always figured that the only way we learn about things is to ask, and that’s all I was doing.
Susan
[edited to include this: I hadn’t seen Susan’s last post when I wrote this, so…]
On 2002-07-16 18:11, StevePower wrote:
…
I also feel that this thread was ill-advised (as it is potentially extremely emotive) and that some comments, already, are coming close to proving the old adage that ‘a little knowledge is a dangerous thing’.Steve
Susan, I disagree with Steve’s assessment that this topic is “ill-advised”, but as you’ve probably already noticed, for some people (myself included), any discussion of anything to do with the north can easily lead to emotional responses. I don’t think your question has been properly answered here yet, and I don’t know that it can be; I would imagine that there are many different answers to your question, from different people, from different parts of the island, etc.
All I had to offer was an anecdote, something I heard from someone I know in a part of Ireland which is directly affected by the border. Other people have told you that in other parts of the country, the troubles no longer make a difference in most people’s lives. My answer, and many of the others, seemed to be more about politics than music, but again, any discussion of the north is bound to lead to those kinds of responses.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that in order to get to people’s opinions of the impact of the troubles on the music, you’re going to have to get past their opinions on the troubles, first. A hard thing to sort out, so good luck with it. I would also suggest that the rest of us (again including myself) attempt to address Susan’s question as rationally and thoughtfully as we would address any other topic, with whatever information is available to each of us, and with as little political rhetoric as possible.
Sorry for the long-winded post. I don’t think I’m usually this pompous! I prefer not to talk politics on this board anyway(it’s not why I’m here), and yet I find myself getting drawn into the political threads as much as anything else. I definitely need to play more, and fret less (not meant to be a fiddle pun).
[ This Message was edited by: gogo on 2002-07-16 19:36 ]
Peace, peace, and more peace.
Peace forever.