http://www.healthybuilding.net/pvc/index.html
The above site lists the really really nasty side of PVC. Warning: If you make whistles from PVC take great care not to breathe the dust.
It sounds like any dangers that may exist are mainly related to toxic byproducts of the manufacture of PVC, and not through exposure to the product itself. One could argue that players of PVC whistles encourage manufacture of the product, but that use would be a speck on the landscape compared to its use in modern plumbing and other industries. Don’t breathe the dust? Yes. Avoid PVC on priniciple? Not unless we swear off all plastics.
Of course it’s a good idea to avoid inhaling any plastic dust, but it’s the fumes produced by machining PVC that are the hardest to avoid.
I stopped working with it because of the fumes… even with the door to my workshop open and a large fan keeping the air circulated, the smell was still intense and I got splitting headaches.
Breathing any fumes is not good for you. I’ve been making some wood instruments lately and friend of mine as strongly urged me to be carefull around mahogany.
Example: http://www.vwa.org.au/des_dangwd.htm
I keep a fan running in the shop so that dust doesn’t cause too much of a problem. Also wood and PVC when machined or turned really doesn’t really cause much of a problem. It sanding that really product the fine dust that can be harmful.
My workshop-in-progress is in my garage so I just keep the door open and wear a mask during the more delicate parts of construction. I used to work in my basement with no mask and then it actually did make me a bit nauseated.
Speaking of PVC building, if anyone has any advice on fipple / mouthpiece construction, please please please send me a PM or let me know somehow. I’m having a heck of a time with it and would be extremely grateful to anyone that could give some good tips. Thanks!
Howdy,
I would be really careful about heating PVC as well. PVC is nicely pliable when heated, and shapes easily, but it gives off nasty gases and a respirator should be used.
FYI - here is the materials saftey data sheet for PVC plumbing fittings.
http://www.iplex.com.au/technicaldata/MSDSPVCPIPEFITTREV0505.pdf
Best,
Dave
One of my favourite things about PVC is that it can be worked (sanded, cut, turned on a metal lathe, drilled and milled) wet. No dust, no heat distortion, minimal off-gassing from heat. I use the standard oil emulsion on the lathe, but plain water with a drop of detergent for hand sanding. Automotive sandpaper, used wet, cuts fine until it falls apart.
The thing that ticks me off most about discussions such as this is that nobody seems to make the point that virtually every caution about exposure to PVC refers to its use in industrial circumstances. I’m not going to ship you a whistle or a flute with a bag of sanding dust to inhale, or uncured adhesive, nor will I suggest that you expose it to high temperatures and sniff the fumes.
People read stuff like this, where cautions to us makers are taken out of context and applied to everyone, and become fearful that Something Bad Will Happen if they so much as touch a PVC instrument with their fingers or stick one under their noses! What poppycock!
I would call to your attention that baby teething rings tend to be made from PVC with the blessing of the FDA. That the effect of ingestion of the tiny bits that a baby might chew off are considered nonexistent. That the fumes from them are not even discussed as a hazard in the literature.
I consider the entire subject a troll, and apologize for responding to it, but for heaven’s sake, what next? An article on molybdenum toxicity to get people scared to play a Village Smithy?
Gawd.
Bill Whedon
Have you neglected to take some sort of necessary medication today, Bill?
Nobody is suggesting that there are any dangers in playing whistles made from PVC water pipe… it’s water pipe, 'nuff said.
And just in case you really don’t know any better - machining it, even in a whistlesmith’s workshop, qualifies as ‘industrial circumstances’.
True enough, it can be done safely if the proper precautions are taken… which is all that’s being stated by this thread.
Kinda puts the kibosh on my new Depleted Uranium Fipples ™
So I have to kick my habit of ending the day with a little port wine and a pipeful of PVC dust? Oh maaaaan…
Dave
Skip the port. 
I think I want one of those for my next camping trip or A-10 sortie.
Bears and tanks beware!
[quote=“raindog1970”]Have you neglected to take some sort of necessary medication today, Bill?
Nobody is suggesting that there are any dangers in playing whistles made from PVC water pipe… it’s water pipe, 'nuff said.
And just in case you really don’t know any better - machining it, even in a whistlesmith’s workshop, qualifies as ‘industrial circumstances’.
True enough, it can be done safely if the proper precautions are taken… which is all that’s being stated by this thread.[/quote
You don’t need to suggest anything of the sort. All you need do is point out toxicity, and I will guarantee you that someone will get hysterical about it and cancel an order on you. If you’ve not seen it happen yet, wait for it. It’s just a matter of time before someone orders a whistle or flute, and comes back next day and cancels it “because I read on Chiff and Fipple that it’s toxic! And then I read this article or that, and it’s really dangerous!” Have a look here:
http://www.turnertoys.com/PVC_framepage1.htm all about PHTHALATE TOXICITY
And then try to tell them that it’s okay to touch or play the instrument. See how far you get.
The things we work with:
PVC plastic
Acetone/lacquer thinner
Adhesives (cyanoacrylate, epoxies)
Brass (releases zinc fumes)
Nickel (strong allergen for many people, carcinogen)
Copper (weakness, nausea, genetic effects)
And people are remarkably easy to steer with simple fear. It really boils down to the way that things are said. Start the article off with “Whistle makers shouldn’t breathe the dust” and nobody gets hysterical. Start it off with “Dangers of PVC” bolded, and you get a whole 'nother set of reactions. You’ve just been reading one. And yeah, I did take my meds. Sarcasm is not a great way to enter into a dialog. Give me some credit for having some experience with all this stuff. I’ve probably just been breathing too much chrome moly steel dust.
Bill
Ah, now you’re making sense within the context of this thread instead of coming off like a raving madman!
Yes, I’ve read quite a few heated discussions about the possible dangers of putting some materials in your mouth, and most of those discussions have quickly deginerated into paranoid rants.
Other than antique whistles with lead fipples, there’s no whistle that I personally have any fear of putting in my mouth… after a proper washing, of course! 
And breathing that chrome-moly steel dust might even have some benificial effects if you’re sulfite sensitive like me… molybdenum supplements significantly increase sulfite tolerance! 
I’m far more fearful of the stuff they put in many foods and beverages than I am of the potential toxicity of any whistle… and don’t even get me started on the modern day snake oil they call medicine, or this whole thread will quickly be moved to the political/controversial forum! 
Well, if you really want to talk toxicity, some of the tonewoods are so dangerous to work that you have to wear a respirator.
And I’ve yet to hear of anyone having a reaction to a plastic or metal fipple; however, I know many folks who have strong reactions to flutes made of blackwood, other folks react badly to cocus, and rosewood though not as often used for flutes causes some recorder players real problems as well.
–James
P.S. I have to amend this, as I just thought about the whole “poison Oak” thing a couple of years ago where people were getting lip tingles from playing Oak whistles. Evidentally that doesn’t happen anymore, as you never seem to see anything posted about that anymore.
All the same, there are quite a few people on the forums making whistles for themselves out of PVC pipe who could benefit from the warning about breathing PVC dust from sanding or fumes from machining. Quite honestly, I would rather see you lose a couple of sales than see someone sanding away in total ingnorance. Perhaps in the future you yourself could periodically post warnings about PVC dust and fumes that are titled in such a way that your sales are not imperiled.
Emphasis of the sulfite info is mine. I see, Gary. The red wine’s gettin’ to ye a bit, is it, laddie? I suppose the only thing we can tell folks is to play a Village Smithy and chew the fipple end or use it as a wine muller!
Anyway, it’s lur’vly news for ye I have. The only thing I can find about yer Delrin is that ye shouldn’t burn it (outgasses formaldehyde) nor should you melt it and drip it onto your skin. Since it melts somewhere up around 400 some degrees F, I suppose that would go without sayin’! However, you can eat it without ill effects, I guess until later.. but you shouldn’t breathe the dust nor get it in your eyes. I guess that’s another “no-no” for snortin’!
I had a couple aspirin and 4 ginger snaps with milk, and I’m all better now.
Cheers,
Bill
PVC hmmm yes I have a memory of this from the 70’s at a time I was sharing a house with a microbiology PHD. He was studying PVC and its affects on organisms. In lay terms, he expressed his concern for poorly manufactured PVC - that it would have large quantities of free monomers. Free monomers are free radicals - they can insinuate into the DNA and damage it.
His main point was that such poorly manufactured PVC would not be very good as a plastic - quality control would relegate it to scrap. Business ethics, being what they are, would ensure the on-sell of this scrap to third world countries to maximise returns on investment. He had no concerns for developed western counties use of PVC.
In fact, our own bodies manufacture large quantities of free radicals - it is a common by-product of the activity of mitocondria which are present in nearly all animal cells. His main area of study was the function of sexual reproduction in organisms and was intrigued at the way the sexual organs of higher animals are extremely well protected against free radicals - effectively, our sexual organs age much slower than the rest of the body. This ensures the integrity of the DNA being propogated by the species. Presumably, this defence mechanism might be exploited for application to the rest of the organism - i.e. imunity to cancer and aging.
The point being that our bodies are defended against such things - we just have to be careful to not allow high levels to overwhelm our defences.