I have been comparing two whistles. They sound vastly different to me when playing, but they sound more similar when listening to a recording. Some of you out there have more discerning ears, and I would appreciate you opinions on the difference in tone, if you coould spare the time.
I rushed off a recording this morning. Same room, same position, same recording settings, no enhancement (except a ‘normalisation’ which amplifies the signal uniformly). Same tune, played once with each whistle. I left in the gaps and the flubs as it is not about my playing or audio mastering techniques.
Your opinions would be very helpful. I will not identify the whistles yet, as that might colout your perceptions.
Wow! They did sound so similar to my ears. The differences were very subtle. Of the two I preferred the first which I felt had a slightly richer fuller tone with more breathiness. The second whistle had a good sound but suffered slightly by way of comparison. It was a purer sound and lacked the fullness of the first whistle. I won’t even try to guess what the whistles are. I will only embarrass myself. That’s my two pennyworth anyway.
I’ve noticed the same about recordings and whistles sounding more similar. I recently got two different whistles from the same maker, and in the recordings they sounded pretty similar. In real life they were very different from one another (btw, both fantastic though!). These were two completely different models, by the way. The attributes of sound that set them apart from one another were not heard in the recording. I think recordings generally suck tone from the instrument.
Also, I’ve recorded whistles and noticed the sound as being much different. I’d say it’s due to a combination of factors.
First, any recording method is not going to pick up all the frequencies heard in real life, with many of the attributes that set the whistles apart from one another might not be picked up in the recording.
Second, whistles sound different to the person not playing it. What you are hearing is different from what a person 15 feet away might hear, and this applies to the microphone, too, even moreso considering the first factor.
I noticed when I record my MK it sounds much less breathy than it does to me when I’m playing it. I’d say it’s a combination of both factors I mentioned.
I could tell a difference between the two whistles on the recording. I assume they sound much more different in real life, though, especially to the one playing them. The sound wasn’t too different between the two, but enough to know it’s not the same whistle.
I found both samples to be pleasing to my ears. Any variation noted was minor and I can easily say I did not have significant preference of one vs. the other. Nice playing.
I agree that the differences audible on the recording are very subtle. On first listening, I had a slight preference for the breathier tone of the first whistle; on second listening, I favoured the second whistle, and I think that’s the one I’d prefer for long-term use. Neither is a dud. I enjoyed the playing, too. Thanks.
Next question … is there any way to make recordings that reveal the differences more clearly?
I don’t know that my ears are particularly discerning but the whistles do sound distinctly different. I prefer the second one and thought the tone was more interesting. In particular i thought the low F#DE sequence at the end of one of the early phrases was much nicer on the second whistle.
A caveat though - I have chosen to play flute rather than low whistle so my preferences over tone tend away from the breathy sound of the first one.
Edit to add that I had a quick look at the spectrum of that low E (in Audacity). As I suspected there is more volume in the fundamental from the first whistle; the spectrum of the second is nearer to that of the flute players ‘reedy tone’.
Nice tune, ‘Cape Clear’.. I wonder if the first one is a Overton/Goldie/Chieftain and the second a Burke or a Reyburn?
I am shooting in the darke here though..
Interesting test! I didn’t read the others replies, but will after I post my thoughts.
I preferred whistle no 2, because it had a lovely low end, even though the bell note was not overly strong it seemed). Overall the notes were more defined, (not as airy or thin) compared to whistle no 1.
The low end was stronger on no 2, and it seemed the upper end was a bit harder to access. Nice expressive tone overall.
In contrast, the low end on no 1 was not strong, and it seemed the upper end was easier to access for you. But, a bit too thin and a bit whispy, for my taste, overall in tone.
Sometimes it’s all how you play them too-so, maybe it’s not a foolproof test either.
I find the differences in sound between the two to be rather large, as in hugely different. Along the lines of what Mr_Blackwood said, I’d guess the first whistle has a flat windway while the second may be curved. I wouldn’t go so far as to guess brands although the bottom end on the first whistle doesn’t, in this recording, seem to have the characteristic power of a Goldie/Overton. But the player can certainly influence how much of that one hears as well.
My main comment on the two is this: The first whistle sounds more consistent in tone from top to bottom, that is to say, the second register notes have the same characteristic tone as the 1st register notes, everything sounds as if it’s coming from the same instrument and your ear is not surprised by the sound of any note. Not so on whistle #2 - while the bottom notes lean towards a significantly cleaner/purer tone, the upper notes are much more breathy sounding by comparison. Personally, as a former woodwind maker, I consider this a fault, a poorly designed or voiced instrument: A wind instrument should sound tonally consistent from top to bottom, to be otherwise tends to distract the listener, and player, from the actual music being played. Not as jarring perhaps going up and down the scale, but when you start playing passages where you’re jumping between registers, that’s where it can really become distracting to have vastly different tonal characteristics of notes in different locations: Pure here, breathy there, piercing/biting somewhere else, etc.
Both whistles nice sound and nice playing. You know I certainly have no expertise but here goes, FWIW.
The first whistle has a deeper, fuller sound with a slightly more airy quality that took more push. The second whistle has a slightly cleaner, crisper sound, while seemingly easier to reach the higher notes, perhaps a better quality made whistle. I’d prefer the second whistle while both are lovely.
Wild guess here, first whistle is a mystery with the second whistle being a MC. But what do I know.
And there’s a slew of more discerning ears around here than mine.
I thought the differences were quite marked, to be honest. The second was a much more open sound and, as a result, more expressive. I don’t know what the whistles were, and it’s probably not even worth guessing. I much preferred the second one though. I’m not so fussed on the breathiness of the first one. Strange, in a way, since I’m guessing that the second one takes more air, since there was just a hint of you running out here and there.
It’s a nice tune, that I haven’t heard before. It will be going through my head all day now.
Benhall.1: It’s on Paddy Keenan’s ‘Port an piobairi’ album. A pretty good album all through i might add. I had ‘Man of the house’ churning through my head for days after first hearing the album
Thank you to all who took the tiime to listen and especially for the feedback given. Though I was not seeking comment on my playing, I thank yo u for the compliments. My goal has always been to make music that people enjoy, so your enjoyment bings me great satisfaction.
I may be misinterpretting, but I think there seems to be a preference for the second whistle, which I find reassuring. Out of the two it is the one whose tone I prefer, though it is the more difficult to play. The first whistle has been my main/only whistle for so long I know it almost as well as my tongue knows my teeth. It is very reliable and easy to play.
I find Lorens observatons very interesting. I was not aware of the difference in tone (timbre?) between the different parts of the register - perhaps my ears (or brain) are not sensitive enough to the differences. I would not assume that it is the whistle at fault, though. It is more likely to be my playing. I am not fully in control of the second whistle - it has a will of its own - and maybe I am clamping down too hard on its caprice, and limiting its fullness? I may try recording plain scales without the control and see if the tonal differences persist, though I would have to rely upon Loren’s ears for a judgement.
As for the whistles, since people seem to like the ‘guessing game’ I will let it run another day or so. I will say that one of Loren’s assertions was 75% correct. That should spice up the game a little for those that like to play.
The tune is, indeed, Cape Clear. Or was, when I began learning it. I have not looked at the dots for several years, and I am always changeing things, so I may have drifted quite far from the original.
Thank you DrPhill for a pleasantly played tune and an enjoyable thread. So, blindfold on…spun around three times. I’m betting the second whistle to be a Copeland?
OK, I have recorded some ‘scales’(**). Same setup, same whistles, same minimal post-processing. I tried not to influence the voicing of the whistles, but cannot be sure. I apologise for the poor attempt to reach the second C#. A note I do not get much practice at.
Oh, and a typo earlier - Loren was 50% right not 75%. My maths must have failed. My bad.
Recording scales actually makes the difference in the tone (between the two whistles) much easier for me to hear. I think I get distracted by the tune. I like the second whistle better in the recording, and the difference is similar to the difference I percieve playing them.
Maybe the answer is scales rather than tunes?
(**) I am not sure if these are what other people think of as ‘scales’. Appologies if not.
I’m gonna guess #1 is an Overton/Goldie and #2 is a Burke Viper.
I base this on those 2 being the only low whistles I’ve played other than a Howard and a Susato, and I don’t hear characteristics of those 2 in the clip like I do the former two.
EDIT TO ADD: Frankly it sounds like the same whistle to me in your 2nd clip. I’m not where the switch-over is supposed to be in that one.
And I’ve got a couple of whistles I want to do this experiment with. Hopefully in the next couple of days.
I still prefer the tone of the second one. The scale sounds a little smoother on the first one though . Is that because you are more used to it I wonder ? (ditto for the top note on the second).
If folk are going to try to compare whistles using recordings then maybe some advice from those on the board with sound engineering experience may be an idea. The two channels on the second recording (I haven’t looked at the first) don’t have the same waveform, which I suppose is how we hear the room. I wonder if some rooms suit one whistle more than another.
