I paid for a Chris Wall whistle March 29, 2021. I go to www.chriswall.com to check when I might receive it. I went to his website and Go Daddy said it was parked. Is he still in business? Does anyone know what orders he is working on now?
I found this on Reddit. One contributor said they received their whistle (order placed late 2020) in the middle of last year, but people are getting worried that the website is down.
I just searched for Chris Wall whistles and cannot find an active page. To not post a notice of delays or status of ordering or deliveries of orders already placed, must mean shutdown and probably hard times, and if you persist in trying to contact him for orders already placed, best of luck, but if he wonât respond by email, chances of getting your whistle are next to zero. The delays mentioned on many website threads show Wall was not good with communication and long delays were common in the past. If you did place an order that hasnât been received yet, I would have some patience, perhaps he can restart business, but Iâd go ahead considering it lost $$$.
Thank you for your reply, Robert. You came to the same conclusion that I did. I was hoping someone might have more cheery informationâŚ..
After seeing that the website was down I tried emailing him and it was returned as âundeliverableâ. Another very bad sign. Next time I will be way more leery of paying a full cost up front instead of just a deposit. Once the money is spent there is nothing to pay for production and no incentive to ship.
One of my personal âsoap boxesâ that I occasionally climb onto has to do with makers taking advance payment.
Now if a customer orders a very unusual flute, or something that is quite expensive or utilizes rare materials, then the maker accepting a deposit (partial) up front seems reasonable enough. A modest deposit to cover the cost of materials and such if the customer backs out.
But if a maker is simply selling one of their standard products, to my mind there is no sensible reason/excuse for taking advance payment. I donât think it ethical and Iâm suspicious of makers who practice this way. Even if they are completely honest, it is still totally irresponsible because suppose something happens to the maker? They are going to leave a tangled mess behind them. If the customers are lucky, there will be surviving family to sort things out and maybe return the money to the customers. But that is far from certain. If I got run over by a bus tomorrow, no one in my family would have the first idea how to deal with my business! Let alone sorting out refunds if I had been so foolish as to accept advance payments.
It is odd to me how often customers offer to make a down payment on an order, which shows me how common the practice must be. I consistently decline, saying (truthfully) that it will only complicate my bookkeeping.
Plus I think the psychology of the transaction is a real thing. When a maker has already accepted and spent the money for an order, it changes their relationship to the task and might impact their motivation, sense of timeliness, etc.. Iâm sure some makers are immune to this, but Iâve seen how often this psychology manifests, and I know some makers who have gotten themselves in very hot water from taking advance payment, sometimes months or even years in advance of starting the order.
And of course, Iâve been witness to outright fraud perpetrated in this exact same way. Once a fraudster has you money, your ability to recover it is about zero unless you are willing to spend far, far more on legal assistance.
My own advice is if a maker wants you to pay up front, find another maker. There are plenty to choose from.
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People should look into the possibility of chargebacks. Itâs unlikely to work, but it might. Some banks or credit card companies will allow chargebacks for items paid for and not delivered, even long after payment.
It may be worth contacting your bank or credit card company about.
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Yup.
Compare with John Sindt, another whistle maker whose instruments are in demand. Not only does he not take advance payment for a standard model, he makes it plain thereâs no obligation to buy once someone reaches the top of his list. After all, if their needs or financial circumstances have changed he can simply offer it to the next person in the queue.
And John Sindt used to just send out the whistle and expected you to pay on arrival. Not sure he still does though.
Now that is definitely on the other end of the spectrum! Personally, I donât collect payment until the flute is finished and packed and ready to ship. And as Moof points out, sometimes circumstances change and when an order is finished the buyer might have had some financial set-back or emergency, and I wouldnât want to hold onto someoneâs money in such a scenario anyway. Most people are pretty conscientious overall. Iâve only had one notable exception that happened a few years back when some guy ordered a custom xiaoâsomething unusual both in the key and the finish. I completed it (not having taken an advance payment, of course) and at the last moment after I let him know it was ready he told me (blithely, I might add) that he decided to use the money to get a xiao from this other Taiwanese maker instead, thereby leaving me with this odd flute. I never was able to re-home it, and that was pretty annoying! But that was definitely unusual.
I always though of it as thoroughly decent and trusting.
Mind you I bought my Sindts over twenty years ago. Heâd quote you a delivery time and every time a whistle would arrive in the post well before the time promised.
At one point I had ordered a B but when the package landed, there was a D in it.I emailed and a week later the B arrived. I didnât send back the D but passed it on to BrĂd O Donohue, who had been borrowing my own D to record her first CD.
John was fine with that and I sent payment for both.
That was all before people started paying utterly silly money for used Sindts and some fly by night merchants would buy new ones and immediately sell them on for ar least three times what they paid John.
Very much so! And based upon my own experience of flute buyers, Iâm guessing his customers lived up to his trust most, if not all of the time. It is encouraging that most people, when confronted with an honor system of payment actually behave honorably.
Yes, that whole âriding-the-waiting-list-only-to-resell-at-a-profitâ thing is super weasel-y. I remember some discussion of this happening with Pat Olwellâs waiting list, and how some buyers were immediately putting up their flute for sale at considerable profit to allow others to âskipâ the waiting list. Lame.
Iâve often thought about how to avoid this problem.
One solution that might work somewhat well would be to require prospective buyers to send a video of themselves playing a flute. This would allow sellers to simply refuse to sell to anyone who doesnât play the instrument already. That would eliminate newbies from buying your instrument, but it would also eliminate a lot of people who only want to resell the flute, or who just wonât end up taking it seriously. It would reallocate the flutes to serious musicians instead of people who are messing around.
Alternatively, sellers could make their flutes very expensive, but offer a scholarship to people willing to submit videos of themselves playing (and who play at least competently).
Of course, neither of these solutions would entirely solve the resale problem. But they might make it a bit better.
I also personally would like this solution, because Iâm a bit tired of seeing people show up with their Olwell flutes and Copeland whistles at sessions, only to play terribly. 
Like, if youâre not going to bother practicing the instrument, youâre not going to benefit from those high quality instruments anyway. Might as well play something cheap.
I also once met a guy who told me heâs owned an Olwell for years but has never played it once. He just leaves it sitting around âin case he ever gets into flute.â
The obvious way round it would be to refuse to pay ÂŁ500 for a whistle that costs about ÂŁ150 new. Iâve seen people listing them, but it doesnât mean they all sold.
I know for sure a recent one didnât sell on eBay, I put a âwatchâ on it. The seller contacted me to say heâd restart the auction if there were no bids, but was offering me a chance to buy at a fixed price (ÂŁ520, I think). I said I was only following what happened when people tried their hand at a bit of amateur price gougingâŚdidnât hear anything more, and the auction ended the next day. Never saw it re-listed.
Personally, Iâve always been confused about the difference between price gouging and supply and demand. To put it simply, isnât price gouging just capitalism? 
The distinction is often described in terms of what is reasonable, or legal, in the case of a designated emergency. But it seems clear that different people have radically different notions of what is reasonable, in all aspects of life and human behavior. And as for legalities, I donât believe there has ever been an officially declared emergency due to the shortage of Olwell flutes or Copeland whistles. Perhaps there should be?
Having said that, I do agree with the general sentiment that most have expressed here. Personally, Iâve struggled to define an official price list for my own flutes because on the one hand, I really want them to be affordable to young (and old) musicians who might not have much money, and who want a top quality instrument to make music with. And on the other hand, I donât want to undercut existing makers who are struggling to make their living from flute making.
As to my personal motivations, I donât make my living from flute making, and I care more about my instruments being played than the money I could potentially make from selling them. I do accept orders in advance, but I donât accept money in advance, and I generally give people time to play the flute and ensure that they like it, offering to issue a refund in exchange for return of the instrument (undamaged) if they donât. I never actually had to do that though.
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Exploitative capitalism, I guess. But I agree makers canât do anything about it. If buyers are daft enough to pay several times the going rate, thatâs their look-out.
Theyâre probably relative novices who think a top class whistle will make them sound better. More experienced ones know you can learn the whole technique on a ÂŁ10 Generation, you donât need to pay rip-off prices because there are other excellent options while youâre waiting, and even when you get to the top of a waiting list the whistle wonât necessarily end up being your favourite.
To be fair, sometimes buyers arenât âdaftâ at all - theyâre simply paying what the instrument is worth to them.
If I had the choice of waiting 8+ years for a $5,000 Olwell or buying a $10,000 one right now, thereâs a good chance Iâd go with the latter, especially if I had a lot of money. Instruments are more valuable if you get them now vs. way in the future.
The real problem isnât âprice gauging.â The problem is that makers like Olwell keep their prices artificially low, and some cretins are taking advantage of the situation for their own benefit. Olwells are simply worth more than the price they are sold for new, based on principles of supply and demand. The fact that they are sold for so little is essentially charity on the part of the makers.
Charity is an amazing thing, when it benefits deserving people. But in this case, the charity (i.e. the artificially low price) ends up benefiting random people who either got on a list ages ago or are willing to wait an insanely long time for the product. It also artificially drives up demand for Olwells, making people want them who ordinarily wouldnât bother.
And look, I get it: the alternative (selling the flutes for what theyâre actually worth) has its own problems. If you do that, youâre closing Olwells off to a lot of people who could make amazing music but donât have a lot of money.
So how do you solve this conundrum? Well, again, I think my suggestion would be the best. Olwell should sell the flutes at their actual market value, and then offer a scholarship allowing really good musicians (particularly those with lower income) an opportunity to buy them for way cheaper. This avoids artificially increasing demand, mitigates the resale problem, allocates more flutes to players who actually deserve them, and doesnât screw over people with lower incomes. (And as a bonus, the Olwells would get to make more money.)
Iâve only spoken to Pat Olwell on one occasion a few years ago (and we covered a fair bit of ground). But my overwhelming impression of him as an artisan is that money is not a big driver for him. He is practicalâhe raised a family making flutes for a livingâbut heâs got what one might characterize as a bit of a âhippyâ sentiment about commerce. I wouldnât presume to speak for him on this, and my impressions may be half-lit, but thatâs how he struck me at the time. Thatâs why his prices are so reasonableâhe knows that he could ask for more money, but he doesnât choose to. So idealism is a factor I expect.
But I confess that the idea of players having to audition for some scholarshipâto be found âworthyâ to buy a fluteâdoesnât sit very well. There might be plenty of players who are dedicated and appreciative of a fine instrument but who are not great players. Do they not deserve a good flute? This seems murky. But I grant you that they whole buying and reselling piece is equally murky.
My own thoughts about pricing in a free market is that itâs sort of a Kobayashi Maru situation. paddler summed up the dilemma very well: how does a maker set prices that are a âwinâ for everyone? The nature of the free market is that there is always someone who is willing to undersell other makers, and if they combine talent with a willingness to work for very modest wages, then they will (potentially) force other established makers to try to keep a lid on their prices in order to remain marketable. If you could buy a flute that is in every way as great as an Olwell flute, but you can get it for half the price, what is the likely outcome? That might also be a part of why Patrick prices his flutes so reasonably.
I think one of the trickiest things about being a professional maker is the setting of prices. Itâs a real bugaboo. Iâm constantly doing a balancing act between trying to make my stuff affordable and pricing it so that I feel Iâm being properly compensated for my labor and experience. Itâs an ongoing process, and I often change my prices (generally lowering them) if I feel like my methods and efficiency have improved to the point where I can make a flute with less time and labor.
Anyway, I strongly suspect that there is no solution :-).
Well, which would you prefer: the people who end up with them are all âworthyâ of them, or the people who end up with them are a mixture of worthy/unworthy/nefarious people? Put differently, if there are a limited number of flutes to go around, why wouldnât you want the best, most dedicated musicians to have them?
Also, a maker wouldnât have to restrict them to amazing players. The scholarship could simply be reserved for players who (1) prove theyâre relatively low income, and (2) prove theyâre at least trying to play well, rather than waffling about.
Youâre still not good enough to buy one? Then thatâs a great incentive to get better! Iâve seen players become quite good at a few tunes after just a few months of practice.
Personally Iâd be inclined to take the mix rather than set up as deciding who is worthy. Thatâs not something Iâd be comfortable passing judgement on. Iâd be more likely to accept the potential nefarious element as part of the deal and try to stay open to whoever felt they wanted a nice flute. Or put another way, how do you decide who is the best and most dedicated? That seems like two different criteria. Someone might love flute playing, work their butt off at it, and not play as well as someone else who didnât try as hard. Which of them is worthy?
This is the thin end of a weird wedge as far as Iâm concerned. Prove their income? So they do what, exactly? Hand over their financial records to be examined? Applying for a scholarship at something like an established university (for example) might motivate someone to share such records, but who is going to do that just to qualify for a makers waiting list? Maybe they are out there (flute players can be hardcore). I canât imagine doing that. And how does someone prove they are really trying versus waffling? A series of long videos showing their chops? Raise your hand all makers who want to sit through audition reels to pick someone to buy a flute 
Anyway, pardon the silliness, but this would put the maker in a very odd (and to my mind) uncomfortable position, at least thatâs how it strikes me. I think it is great that you are at least trying to find a workaround, but this might be a bit cumbersome? Any other makers have an opinion?