I mentioned in another thread that I have a Chieftain non-tunable V3 low D whistle that I’m trying to make friends with. The timbre of this whistle isn’t bad at all: soft and flutey. But it has what I regard as an excessive amount of back pressure, to get it to behave properly. I know this is a matter of personal preference, but my feeling is that I have to blow quite hard just to get a rather quiet sound, and to keep the high notes from cracking.
And it seems to me that a big part of the cause of this is simply that the windway is too long. Indeed, the distance from the end of the mouthpiece to the beginning of the window is at least a centimeter longer than on my Dixon low D. The V3 also has a beak that flattens out for that last centimeter or so, which I don’t like that much anyway. I prefer a somewhat more blunted mouthpiece.
So, I have the idea that I could perhaps kill two birds with one stone if I just lopped a bit off the end of the mouthpiece. I’d reduce the length of the windway, thus reducing back pressure, and improve the shape of the beak.
Or maybe I’d just kill one whistle.
I’m no craftsman, but I assume that I’d just need a metal saw and a fine-tooth file to do this. So my questions are: Is this likely to work (reduce back pressure), and is the surgery riskier than I think?
The length of the windway does not add any significant resistance to the air flow. The resistance to airflow is due to the cross-sectional area of the windway, or the smallest cross section in it, usually at the exit. that creates an orifice through which the air need to pass, and it needs a certain amount of pressure to achieve a certain amount of flow. So to reduce “back pressure” as the resistance to free flow you need to enlarge the windway cross-section. You could sand down the top (roof) of the wind way, ever so gently, with fine metal sanding paper. What are the dimensions right now? Increasing a windway height from 1mm to 1.1mm or even 1.2 mm may make the whistle into a free blower. The danger is that you may ruin the tone in the process. Don’t remove material from the bottom (floor) of the windway, as that most likely will disturb the alignment of the jet and the labium. The bottom is usually aligned directly with the labium (edge). Look through the windway to verify this.
You have an active imagination, ubizmo! That’s not a bad thing. You seem to enjoy analyzing the minutia of your whistles. This is the second post in two days on such a subject I see. I’d like to offer two friendly suggestions to you. First, just play the tunes. The whistle is a tool and you learn how to use the tool by working with it. Play on. Really! Second suggestion - instead of hacksawing a Chieftain, start making your own whistles. It’s a lot of fun. You can carry out your investigations and experiments at considerably less expense. And you can keep track of the cause and effects of your tinkering. Who knows maybe you’ll discover something and be able to bring it back to all of us in the form of the Ubizmo whistle. We’ll all buy one.
Hans, I have to disagree with you regarding the length of the airway and back pressure. From my experience the longer the airway the greater the effect of “drag” on the airflow which increases the back pressure. In the past I have tapered the airway which reduced the drag (less contact with the walls of the airway) and the result is an easy blower. I recently took the taper out of some of my whistle heads and the back pressure did in fact increase without changing the cross sectional dimensions of the airway exit point. An example of this is the short stubby beak on the Abell whistle heads which I’m quite sure is the approach Chris is using to control back pressure.
So from my point of view… to shorten the length of the airway will indeed reduce back pressure. Now where is that hacksaw???
Thanks Ronaldo! I will experiment with this. I imagined there would be little drag from the walls in a smooth and warm (no condensation) windway. The question remains: would shortening the windway by say 25% make a high backpressure whistle into a medium backpressure whistle, can shortening alter this significantly? I am also curious as to what the dimensions of the windway of the Chieftain are: width, height and length? And do even the low notes need a lot of push to get sounded?
If I were sawing on my whistle, I would approach it in stages, say 1/8" cut off at a time, and check the results before cutting again. It is easier to cut off some than to add some back on.
@Feadoggie – Yes, I like to think about the details of my whistles, ocarinas, quenas, and so on, and why the play they way they do. But I also spend quite a lot of time playing. And I buy and sell whistles, in search of the ones that work best for me. I’m new to low whistles, but I really enjoy playing them.
This V3 is in some respects a very nice whistle. The somewhat fuzzy timbre grows on me, but the back pressure doesn’t. I am, in fact, not at all eager to try to modify it. Nevertheless, I’m curious about the feasibility of this modification. It makes sense to me that the length of the windway would have something to do with back pressure, for the same reason that a long straw is harder to blow through than a short one. Whether shortening the beak a little would make enough difference to matter is another question. Seems that it shouldn’t affect tuning.
For the record, the height of the windway is about 1.25 mm. Hard to measure without precision tools. The length of the whole thing is 58.2 cm. Inner diameter is about 2.3 cm. The back pressure is mainly an annoyance at high G and above. The notes just don’t want to ring out.
Just for the sake of the discussion, what’s the main thing that might go wrong, if I were to shorten the beak?
Aluminum clogs abrasives and cutters so try for a medium tooth file, as a fine tooth one will be of no use after a few passes. Also find a hack saw blade with a very high tooth density, you want precise easy cuts not big teeth that want to rip out sections.
If you go through with it let me know how it turns out.
The things I don’t like about my chieftain is how gentle you have to blow the bell note(s) if you don’t want them to break and how the vented middle D likes to crack unless you really push it. Middle vented D takes more push than XXXXXX.
That makes me wonder, how are the bell notes on yours? Maybe we should just swap haha!
Also; I had another mod in mind for my V3. I have a very hard time reaching Hole 6 with R3, and my finger spread is not wide enough that I can piper that finger. I have no problems on Low D Flute though because it is transverse. So…
Transverse Low Whistle!
If only I still had shop access I could do this myself; it’s handy being a welder. Alas, unemployment is my bane.
Please remember that if you alter whistles in any way, generally, the maker will not cover any warranty given to the instrument, so there will be no come back if you balls it up.
Just a thought!
Wiz
I can’t see how that works. I am not an expert on whistle making, but I can do ‘visual geometry’. You will not get the top of each half (fipple window and tone holes) facing in the same direction. The only way to get the tone holes and fipple window on the same side would be to remove a 90 degree section. That would change the pitch and the relationships between the notes.
Rather than adding sharp corners in the body to make the reach more easy, I did cut my first low whistle, an Overton low D, between fifth and sixth hole, then rotated the foot end with the sixth hole slightly, and glued it back on, using a brass plumbing ring for convenience over the joint. With the now offset sixth hole it was far more comfortable.
I agree with Reyburnwhistles that shortening the airway will reduce back pressure a little, like you said ubizmo, it’s easier to blow through a short straw than a long straw. And I’ve certainly noticed this in my own tinkering. However the main reason, I think, to why back pressure is high on V3s, as well as Overtons, Os/Nr Chieftains and others - is because of the “walls” on either side of the fipple window. These walls protrudes from the fipple block, or in the case of the Overton formed by simply pressing the tube. They help to strengthen the lower notes, increase volume and back pressure. They also lower the amount of air the whistle would require without them. Early Os Chieftains don’t have them and because of it are easier to play in the upper register but then you have to be careful not to jump octave on the lower notes.
So I wonder if shortening the airway will be enough to make the higher notes more attainable. Would be interesting to see though, do let us know how it plays if you decide to go through with it. Though, telling if it made a difference can be tricky if you don’t have an unaltered V3 to compare with…
@wizzywig – This is a used Chieftain, bought from a C&F member, so there’s no warranty on it that I’m aware of.
@Sigurthr – I have a side-blown Yemeni fipple flute somewhere that I got as a gift. It’s badly out of tune, though. But the idea is interesting.
@yellowhistler – I guess it’s very possible that shortening the beak would reduce back pressure, but in a way that does nothing to help the high notes. The high (3rd) D is barely a squeak, and doesn’t have much musical value. A, B, and C# are there, but they only speak under duress, and that’s just how they sound.
I would send it back to the maker and let him assess the whistle. he may replace it, all Chieftains carry a lifetime warranty regardless of where or who they came from.
wiz
As I read it, the lifetime warranty is a warranty against damage. This whistle isn’t, as far as I know damaged or defective. I can’t really tell without comparing it to another of the same model. But you’re absolutely right to suggest that I should probably contact Phil Hardy and see what he has to say about it, and whether he thinks shortening the beak would accomplish anything. He might even be willing to do it. Or it may just be that the whistle isn’t a good fit for me.
Really, a great deal of WhOAD is the result of trying to find a good fit between player and whistle. The plastic head Kerry was my first low D. It had a great sound but so little back pressure that the 2nd octave simply drained my lungs too fast. My 2nd low D is a Dixon aluminum, which is really pretty good, especially in the 2nd octave. It has low back pressure, but more than the Kerry. The bottom of the 1st octave is a bit fragile. The Chieftain V3 has much more back pressure than either, to the point where the whistle fights me on the top notes. I do play the tenor (and soprano!) sax, so I know what it means to blow to get high notes. I don’t mind doing that, but I like the notes to ring out in response. Probably a good fit for me would be a whistle somewhere in between the Dixon and the Chieftain, in terms of back pressure and clarity of timbre. I have a Howard coming in the mail soon, and that might be just the ticket (I’m not sure whether it has the newest head, however). I certainly won’t consider hacking the Chieftain until I see how I like the Howard. If I prefer the Howard, I’ll just sell the Chieftain.
I want to emphasize that I’m not considering a sawed-off Chieftain just because the back pressure is annoying in itself, but because I think it compromises the whistle musically. I want the top end notes to sound a certain way, and they just don’t.
Sounds to me it is not just a question of back pressure/ airflow resistance, but that there are other factors involved. But hard to tell without trying it. I say that because you mention particularly problems with the high notes, and from what you say the windway is not that narrow (1.2mm).
Yes the mouthpiece would be upside-down, but that isn’t of much consequence to me, and moisture would just flow/fall out!
I’m not sure an offset Hole 6 would help at all, the issue isn’t with finger-pad reach but overall spacing between fingers, my R3 just isn’t far enough away from R2/R1. When I go to use it I often wind up leaking from R1 because my hand has to shift down.
If anyone knows of any whistles that come this way similar that aren’t badly out of tune, I’d love to hear about them.
@Ubizmo I seem to remember a DIY whistle page, maybe ggwhistles, I can’t remember where, that gave what each dimension’s effect on the playability and tone was. It could be a good guide to verify what could be causing the problems you are having.
For the record, I’ve contacted Phil Hardy, who will have a look at it and see if he can find anything problematic. So the hacksaw goes back into the holster, for now.
Step away from the hacksaw!!! 
