well, what’s wrong with making a flute and then learning the system?
Well then I’d have to learn that system and unlearn a lifetime of playing the regular 6 holed system! I’d rather learn a different instrument than have to relearn the flute all over again, just to satisfy a very small minority of my clientele.
The long history of the simple flute favors the standard 6 hole placement. On my flutes, at least, there is no compromise for the C and C# - both play reasonably in tune. And that thumb is better for supporting the flute ergonomically.
When I was in the process of switching to simple-system flute, after 15 years of investment in the Boehm system, I very nearly ordered a flute with a C-nat hole and long Bb touch to facilitate the transition, since the two systems have more fingerings in common with that configuration. In the end, I got a standard 6-key flute…and ever since, I have been glad that I have done so. I find the 6-hole arrangement very well conceived (it has lasted for hundreds of years–in the European context alone), and the C-nat and Bb keys, in their traditional places, also fall under the fingers very nicely. I think we can be a bit quick to judge the old system as inferior or unperfected, when, in fact, it’s a very well thought out fingering system.
This is helpful. It focuses the issue very intelligently.
The C natural thumbhole is, it seems to me, the hole for the C natural key but without the key.
It’s in the same vicinity, roughly, except it’s positioned so it can be closed comfortably
with the thumb.
In effect it’s the same hole, but closed with the thumb.
The argument that the flute has an in tune cross fingered C natural, so a thumb hole isn’t
needed, would seem to work just as well for the conclusion that a C natural key isn’t
needed. If the whole idea was to get a more in tune C natural, maybe the key and
the thumb hole both would be superfluous. But one of the reasons people go for
the key or the thumbhole is because these can considerably simplify fingering.
E.G. shifting back and forth rapidly between B and C natural is a good
deal easier with a key/thumbhole.
I’m not sure I understand why one would need to commit to relearning the
flute in order to put in a thumb hole. The maker puts in the hole, plays B,
lifts the thumb and listens to whether it’s playing a strong C natural, makes adjustments.
I suppose anybody who could put in a C natural key hole can do this
for a thumb hole too without relearning the flute. I suppose playing
a G scale using the thumb hole would help and also listening to what
the hole does open when playing C sharp. But why would this require
fluency using a thumb hole?
There seems to be no loss of stability using the thumb hole. The same argument
would militate against using the thumb for a Bb key. The thumb is usually
in place, the hole gives it something to brace against, and the flute
is solid when it’s briefly lifted if one’s grip is reasonably good.
The interest in a thumb hole implies no dissatisfaction with the tried
and true six-hole arrangement, any more than wanting keys does.
Both arrangements add more holes to the flute.
The idea isn’t that the thumbhole is
necessarily better than the C-natural key but that it’s an alternative some people may
find at least as efficient, possibly easier to use, and a lot cheaper.
As many people find a C natural key useful, it’s nice to be able
to get that benefit for 25 dollars or so on a keyless flute.
My impression (I’ve been playing a D flute with a thumb hole for only a few days).
Using the thumb hole produces slightly less contrast on these cuts than using LH1.
In both cases the thumb hole cut is good enough,
however. I expect that, executed well, the difference is undetectable.
Maybe more experienced players can say something about this.
I just want to add to my post above that, of course, what makers are willing
or comfortable
doing on their flutes is entirely their call. No implication that anyone
‘should’ do anything.
i do pipers grip on a boehm flute–why wouldnt it be possible on a flute with a c natural thumb hole? maybe i’m missing something.
acoustically, mathematically, there is a compromise. i have nothing against the cross fingered c, but it is flawed in many ways.
learning a new instrument is a lot more work than relearning a single fingering. the resistance is what causes the difficulty, not the challenge of the task. also, i think learning alternate ways of doing things increases your mindfulness of the process, and makes you a better musician. i’ve had to relearn fingering patterns for the concertina at least 3 times, and every time i learned it better and was better off. after you relearn how to do things that you are resistant to, you get better at doing it.
i personally think you should constantly be reassessing everything you are doing if you want to get better. you don’t have to do it, obviously, and there’s nothing wrong with not–from a business stand point, you are right, the ratio of time spent and customer satisfaction is way too small to make it worth considering. i just find flexibility a reward in and of itself.
Absolutely not. I’m questioning Casey’s assertion that on his flutes with no keys both C and C# are reasonably in tune. However I’m ready to be convinced he’s right but need to know what temperament he’s talking about and what he means by “reasonably”.
I’m having a good time playing with thumbholes; I’ve had them added
to flutes in different keys.
Here’s something from Terry M on the advantages of thumbholes.
"A very interesting zero-cost option is the addition of a c hole, covered by the left thumb. It occupies the same position along the flute as did the old c key hole, but is operated by the thumb rather than using the key for the right hand index finger.
Benefits include:
another way to achieve c-natural
works the same in both octaves
gives a c-natural with the same tone as the other notes in the scale
very handy for B-c-B
easier to operate than the original flutes’ c-key
gives the perfect c# the old makers intended, but more easily
That last point alone makes it worth considering.
There are no serious downsides:
You can still play c-natural by all the other means
you do have to keep your thumb in place for notes below c
just cover it over with tape if you find you don’t like it!"
…
I add that sliding on the thumb hole gives one an uncommonly
expressive C natural, which really can be an advantage, I’m finding.
