Oh, heck yes, put it back up! 
I can probably use all the help I can get.
T
Hmm, Iāve never heard of a hop jig. Anyone know of a site where I could sample this Tommy Potts recording? I tried the usual suspects: Amazon, Emusic, iTunes, with no luck.
Itās interesting how many of the bands have pianos and trap set. I wasnāt expecting that.
I suppose thatās what makes a ceili band.
Usually not full trap sets: https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/ceili-drummers-advice-sought/65236/1
Hm, I never really thought of the difference between learning from listening to ceili bands vs. sessions and session recordings, as Ben recommended.
The main thing that occurs to me ā¦ If youāre a typical ITM acolyte coming from a lifetime of listening to pop music, one of the harder conceptual leaps you need to make is to look to the melody instruments to provide the lift and drive, not the āartificialā beat of drums and chords. Ceili arrangements, with prominent drumming and chord pounding, might hinder making that clean break. After all, ceili bands with piano and trap drums are themselves a sort of pop-trad fusion - that is, pop music of the 1920s.
On the other hand, many modern ITM bands (SĆ³las, etc.) are also pretty chord and percussion heavy - even if itās guitars and strummy things doing the job. And these groups have served as gateways for many of us along the road to the purer drop. Not to mention, of course, that a lot of very fine players have cut their teeth and honed their chops in ceili bands.
So I guess theyāre fine. As long as you donāt neglect listening to the other stuff, especially if youāre not also participating in live session style playing.
Hm, I always thought a ceili and a session were essentially the same thing. Is a ceili more of a formalized thing? I notice on that web site that the impromptu music groups are called āsessions.ā
And I think I read the term āhoolieā on a chieftains album once. Is that like a session, but with more alcohol, or what?
Iāve noticed that one of the things that defines the older/more traditional/pure drop sound is that the melody itselfāwith all its rhythms and nuancesāis what gives the drive and texture to the music, as opposed to percussion and chords.
But I guess Iām a hopeless modernistāI do like the sound of a trad melody over a good chord-driven rhythm, be it guitar, harp, or whatever. Banjo is marginal, i.m.o. (although it can be pretty amazing as a melody instrument 
). I personally can do without the piano and the snare/bass drumā¦
T
p.s. MT, if you think the aforementioned sermon would be helpful, feel free to pm me, since the thread seems to be taking off a different direction. I suspect I will enjoy my life either way.
Tom, a ceili is a dance event, for dancers, like an American square dance or contradance or social dance. It has it its roots in village dances in private homes or public places. But the modern form stems from the ultra-conservative Irish Dance Hall Act of 1935 which, by some accounts, nearly killed Irish trad music in Ireland. It banned informal ceilis, and brought them under the eye of the Church in parish halls. Some of the deliberate formality you see in the demeanor of Comhaltas fleadh competition ceili bands today stems from this heritage.
A session is a playing event with roots in the same village dance music, but modern origins in the informal pub gatherings of Irish ex-pat musicians in London pubs in the 1950s, then exported back to Ireland and the US. The focus is on the playing itself and the interchange of tunes. Same music, different setting and purpose, so a different aesthetic and demeanor.
A hoolie is just a dance and music party or bash. Think āhootenannyā. No particular formal meaning, I think. A wee drop or two would be associated with a hoolie.
Now thereās the mark of a good musician - great definition!
Anyone care to post a clip of the Butterfly played as a hop jig?
Hereās what it might look like in ABC:
X:1
T:Butterfly, The
R:Hop Jig
N:Counted in 1, played ādottedā
M:3/2
K:Em
BE GE F2|BE GE FD|BE GE F2|Bd dB AF:|
Bd ef g2|Bd ge dB|Bd ef g2|ba ge dA:|
B2 BA GA|B2 (3BAB dA|B2 BA GA|Bd ge dA:|
An approximation is to take a slip jig and ignore the middle note of each group of 3. But the rhythm and phrasing changes subtly, too.
Maybe Iāll try a recording later - though Iām sure Nico could do a better job of it.
This is a remarkably lucid & concise run-through. Bravo!
Indeed! Thanks!
T
FWIW, Iād never write a hop jig in anything but 9/8. The way I look at it, the relationship between a slip jig and a hop jig is comparable to that between a double jig and a single jig (or even better, a slide). Itās all about emphasis.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but iād suggest listening to Seamus Ennis on Return from Fingal (playing the two dusty millers), or Tommy Potts playing the aforementioned hop jig. I believe the Liffey Banks is available.
Crazy. Last time I checked it was long out of print. (And I think never released on CD?)
Of course, Iām not sure a CD (2008) that costs $43 at Amazon.com should count as available. Anyone have a reasonably priced source for these?
My mistake, I thought Iād heard it had been re-released.
While, the next best thing (or possibly better, actually) is here:
http://ecotonal.blogspot.com/2009/09/tommy-potts-for-peter-oloughlin-and.html
Get it while you can.
Thanks for that, Nico, very nice. Yes, thatās how I hear The Butterfly as a hop jig. Iād probably play it even more simply than that.
I went through the mp3s and IDād the questionable tune names. Then I realized that Kevin Reitmann had already done the same down the page. But he didnāt match up the track numbers, so here is my take anyway:
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Porthole of the Kelp?, Bunch of Keys (Paddy on the Turnpike)
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The Blackbird, Julia Delaney
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Cliffs of Moher
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Garrett Barryās, Gander In The Pratie Hole, Banish Misfortune
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Cliffs of Moher
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Garrett Barryās, Gander In The Pratie Hole, Banish Misfortune
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Sporting Paddy
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Paddy Ryanās Dream
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Martin Wynneās #2, Jennyās Chickens
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An Raibh Tu ag an Carraig, OāDowdās
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OāDowdās, Austin Tierneyās
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Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms, Rocky Road to Dublin
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Rakish Paddy
-
The first tune sounds to me like the Am setting of Bobby Caseyās Porthole of the Kelp, with the B part of Return to Camden Town. So I donāt know. Falcarragh (that Kevin suggests) is usually another name for Farrell OāGaraās. The 2nd tune is, I believe, the 3-part Bunch of Keys, not Paddy on the Turnpike. The two tunes are otherwise very similar.
-
Julia Delaney, not Broken Pledge.
06, 08. These sound like 2 different extractions of the same recording from the tape.
07, 09. These sound like 2 different extractions of the same recording from the tape. -
Definitely Sporting Paddy.
-
Itās Paddy Ryan, not Sgt. Early, who is dreaming here. Different tune.
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This Martin Wynneās is usually called #2
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This OāDowdās is not the better-known OāDowdās #9
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OāDowdās again.
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The air Endearing Young Charms is the Thomas Moore song.
Very nice, thanks!
Is there some distortion in the first seconds of some of them, (e.g. #2 and#7), or is that my player?
Yes, thereās some tape ājunkā at the start of most of the tracks. It adds to the charm.
OK, two days in. Thatās some of the warmest, purest, most inspiring music of any kind I have ever heard. What a treasure!
Yes, crookedtune. Itās really quite amazing music.
I honestly donāt think Iād ever be able to listen to the butterfly played any other way again and not cringe. Thereās that much power to his playing. Itās like ice-9.