Geeze, Blackhawk and I don’t live on the same planet… Sindt breathy or chiffy? Hu, sure. I don’t know how you can get more “pure” than Sindt. Guys, maybe it’s time to check if there’s no gum or food stucked in your Sindt’s fipple!
On 2003-01-15 16:44, Azalin wrote:
Geeze, Blackhawk and I don’t live on the same planet… Sindt breathy or chiffy? Hu, sure. I don’t know how you can get more “pure” than Sindt.
It’s easy. Play an O’Briain, a Dixon, or a Burke. All are more more “pure” than a Sindt. See? That wasn’t hard, Az! 
But I’m seeing a pattern here that’s interesting. NickT hated his so much he sent it back, it being far too breathy. Mine is breathy, too. Az and Jessie have evidently played very pure toned Sindts. From what I’m hearing, they must have a lot of variation from one whistle to the next.
I’m still blowing my mind about what Jessie said about Gens not being breathy whistles. Certainly they aren’t as breathy as Clarkes (nothing is), but in the thousands of posts I’ve read here, I’ve never once heard Gens referred to as anything other than chiffy, by which the poster has usually meant breathy (the other definition of chiffy referring to the “pop” at the beginning of a note). And of the dozen or more I’ve played, I’ve never heard one that was close to pure. This isn’t an attack on you, Jessie, just consternation at the idea of pure toned Gens.
I think it’s your (and nick’s) playing, blackhawk. I recorded this on a red-topped Generation d. Is it breathy?
And yes, I know I am rhythmically challenged.
I wonder if it’s a matter of how different people define “breathy.”
When I think of breathy, I think of the sound of air blowing through the whistle, completely separate from the musical notes, like wind sounds.
There’s also something I would call “complex” or “reedy” that Generations have a lot of, that I wouldn’t define as breathy. Could it be this complex or reedy quality that sometimes gets referred to as “breathy”?
Also, I can think of two ways “pure” might be interpreted.
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Without much chiff (squeaking, popping, etc.) and/or breathiness or
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The actual waveform of the whistle’s notes having fewer overtones, hence a “purer” sound, which to my ear would mean less reedy/complex.
For what it’s worth,
Jerry
I must say that I agree with Jerry’s comments about whistle sounds. That’s exactly how I would be inclined to understand the description of whistle sound.
It’s a very tricky subject. I have a couple of Generations that sound like a rusty hinge…does this help???
Cheers, Adrian
What’s the big deal on the cross fingered Cnat on a Sindt? It’s very slighty out of tune…So what! I’ve never been to a session where anyone bothers about perfect pitch. The whistle is a Folk instrument and isn’t played in an orchestral environment where spot on tuning is important. The Sindt to me is a great whistle maybe a bit screechy at the high end but all in all a lovely rich clear tone. I also enjoy my old Generation D but again that is not perfectly in tune, to me that is part of it’s character.
I am not saying it’s good to play out of tune, but for the slight deviations in tuning on most whistles it’s not worth worrying about.
Never tried a Burke (They don’t seem to make it across the Atlantic) so I can’t compare.
Dave.
My thoughts on the Sindt “D” whistle’s C-natural problems are well known, but for those who haven’t heard them, I think it’s really odd, to put it kindly, that John doesn’t want to tackle fixing it.
Dave said that his Generations are not in tune either - debatable, but they don’t have a note that is wincingly out of tune unless you adopt nonstandard fingering as suggested (oxx-xxo) which gives a particularly weak-sounding note, or underblow, which also gives a weak sound. And let’s not forget that the Sindt costs 10 times as much as a Generation and is much harder to obtain.
Couple of things that nobody has mentioned: one, the Burke has a much wider body tube, giving it a more solid-sounding first octave. However with its “perturbed bore” the very top end is surprisingly quiet and docile.
Two, Burkes have this O-ring in the tuning slide which I personally don’t think is a great idea for an instrument that looks as if it’s built to last 1000 years. The O-rings can get dislodged or break if you pull the whistle apart. Then you have to run around for spares, which I couldn’t find easily in Canada, or contact Mike for some.
Yes the Sindt is top-heavy, but the Burke is one of those whistles that looks like it was designed by engineers of the Soviet military.
They’re both good whistles. But I’ve sold both my Sindt D and my Burke WBB. Have Sindts in other keys though.
I don’t think the Burke WBB looks so industrial. The Burke pro sure does.
Yeah, Sindt whistles are top heavy. It IS interesting that he doesnn’t tackle the C natural issue. I am planning a visit to John and Ann at some point, so perhaps I’ll ask about that.
I am no expert, but I do play a Burke Al pro D, and it is the one whistle I play the most and will never part with (thanks Doc!), I have never tried a Sindt. All I know is my Burke is pure, my Clarke is breathy and there are lots of others in between. I guess it all boils down to personal taste. Sometimes I like the breathy sound depending on the song being played, other times not. All you can do is try the one you’re leaning towards, if you don’t like it, sell it here and buy the other.
Cheryl
Go with the Sindt. Its the best I’ve found. Also some time back someone mentioned putting a Gen body on the Sindt head. I tried it and the cross fingered Cnat seems pretty much in tune for me. I also have a Sindt head on a Cillian O’Briain(sp) body. The Cnat on most whistles isn’t perfect anyway. Gives whistles more character.
Shoot! Y’know, I didn’t want a Sindt before. I’ve been carefully not wanting a Sindt, since I already want enough whistles I don’t have. Now I want a Sindt too. Thanks a lot guys 
.
Tery
I like the idea of a more traditional whistle. If Generations were more reliable that would be one thing. From the comments I think the Sindt is the whistle for me. I ordered a D, C, Bb and A. Thanks for all the posts.
Edited for spelling.
[ This Message was edited by: jonharl on 2003-01-15 23:57 ]
I have a Sindt, which I like better than the Burkes I have tried, that said I don’t think by the end of the day there’s a huge difference. Sovjet design indeed.
I very much agree with some of the things said here, the Sindt is indeed an expensive attempt at a Gen type. Having played the Sindt for a good while now, it sill hasn’t convinced me it is actually worth the tenfold price increase.
In fact I will never pick it up at home to play for my own enjoyment, I play it when playing out, because I have it.
I have no problem whatsoever with the C natural, I am flexible enough to adapt fingerings to get it right. Just out of curiosity I watched Geraldine Cotter playing her Sindt this summer, she crossfingered the C on it.
I also think that the discussion on the merits of the sound of Sindt whistles springs from an implicit disagreement on the definition of the terms used. Breathy, chiffy, pure, complex. What do people really mean when using these terms?
My Sindt is certainly not Susato-pure, but neither is it Clarke-breathy. It does have some complexity to its tone, so this might be what some people call breathy, while others strictly associate that term with the sound you get from a Clarke.
About the fabled Sindt Cnat: The piece of clear tape I placed on my Sindt when I received it back in 1999 is still there. It not only adds (along with the patina) to the image of the whistle being a “workhorse”, it also brings the OXXOOO Cnat nicely into tune.
Like Jessie, I also prefer the sound of the old Burke WBB to that of the newer Pro models. The WBB has more character. Like Stevie, I don’t like the use of O-rings in the Pro models (for the same reason). However, my Pro brass is slightly louder than either my Sindt or WBB, so it still sees use once in a while.
Jens
On 2003-01-16 07:46, Jens_Hoppe wrote:
Like Jessie, I also prefer the sound of the old Burke WBB to that of the newer Pro models. The WBB has more character.
Mike has heard this enough times that he’s offering the old-style WBB again.
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=7202&forum=1
Azalin, evidently you’re not on the same planet as Peter Laban, either, as he plays a Sindt but in this link he says pure whistles have no place in Irish music. And since he prefers Generations, I guess we can rule out Gens being pure tone whistles as well.
On 2003-01-16 08:23, blackhawk wrote:
And since he prefers Generations, I guess we can rule out Gens being pure tone whistles as well.
Um, sorry, but, is Peter Laban God? Are you? We can rule out no such thing. Did you listen to my Gen recording?
Um, sorry, but, is Peter Laban God?
Yeah, Peter, are you?
I suppose I will get in trouble if I offer the opinion there is no God. But there you have it.
I don’t remember exactly saying pure whistles had no place [I wouldn’t speak in terms of ‘pure’ etc] but I take your word for it. I think some whistles have a tone that really doesn’t suit the music as I hear it very well, I remember commenting on this after hearing a number of wooden whistles, susatos etc that sounded very much out of place be it for reasons of tone, volume etc.
Only an opinion, bring a long piches of salt as you see fit.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2003-01-16 11:03 ]