A Sindt arrives : a first impression

OK Guys, some speculation was aired here recently that my conversion towards the hand crafted whistle would be imminent . Yesterday evening the postman delivered a package from John Sindt. About six weeks short of the 8 month waiting time and slightly early even for my birthday. I have given the whistle a bit of a spin since it arrival and I have some first impressions.

I will save you the history but out of all the available instruments I ended up ordering a Sindt
One of the reasons for ordering this particular make was the fact it is not trying to be a recorder or a foghorn or anything other than a tin whistle. It is just that, a tin whistle and a nicely made one at that.

Fine so here it is.

It looks nice and clean and new. I have the same feeling about it as Dale in his review: the shaft could be one taken from a generation type, except for the F hole(I’ll come back to that when discussing the tuning) the hole spacing is almost identical to Gens and Oaks, tube is the same too, I don’t actually think it’s the heavier gauge reported elsewhere, it even gives the impression of being a tiny bit thinner.
I like the head on it, simple lines and a nice curve in the plastic mouth piece, pleasing to look at, simple and harmonious looking. A sign of a craftman with an eye for nice lines. Full marks for workmanship.

But I didn’t buy this yoke to put on the mantle piece to look at, so how does it sound.

The whistle plays in concert pitch D when the shaft is almost fully inserted into the head, this leaves hardly, if any, room to tune it slightly above A=440. If you play with pipers at all you want to be able to go a bit sharp. I only checked the tuning after playing the instrument for a bit but the size of the f hole and my ears had told me already what to expect: the tuner indicated every note spot on throughout the range. Wow, you see finally a whistle in perfect tune you’d say. Well, is it? It’s a whistle perfectly tuned to equal temperament. I won’t fault anyone for making a whistle tuned to equal temperament, certainly your customers won’t come to hassle you about the whistle being out. However, I would personally prefer an instrument with a scale leaning more towards just intonation. Just intonation sounds that bit sweeter, every time I play an Fsharp or a B in equal temperament I notice them as being that bit harsher sounding than I would like them. But then, I have my ears used to my pipes which are tuned to just intonation, I play with concertinaplayers who have their instruments tuned to Mean tone comma scales and most fiddleplayers I like will have an intonation leaning towards those scales. I do think these scales suit the music better and I wish more makers of whistles would give the issue some consideration. [I realise that those of you, and probably most of you will want to play accompanied by keyboards and assorted stringed instruments and that you would probably prefer the equal temperament for that, equal temp is a bit of a compromise]

Well, if that was a bit of a subjective issue, try having a go at talking about the tone.

It would be interesting to run a few whistles through a sound analyser to see what the harmonic content of each looks like in a nice graph. I think the Sindt would come out as having less of the lower and higher end harmonics in it’s tone spectrum compared to Gen and Oak types. This makes for a more balanced range, would give you a first impression of well-behaved second octave but after playing it for a while when you go back to a cheaper type I find the cheaper ones have a bit more character.

And that’s all I am going to say about it for now, I have not played the new instrument enough to give a really fair assessment. When comparing with my four ‘reference whistles’ (a 20 year old brass Gen a Nickel Gen, A brass ‘Darra’ brand and an Oak) I find though they all have their pro’s and cons. Each has a few notes I like more than others within it’s range. None of the five Ds stand out as a better one overall.


So, am I a convert now.? Well, I like the new whistle, will play it a good bit (it’s the newest toy after all). I enjoy the fine workmanship that has gone into it, it plays nicely in every respect. But will I chuck the cheaper ones in the bottom drawer in favour of this one? Nah, don’t think so, they’ll co-exist for a long time yet.

I expect Brid Donohue (who if you’d ask me my favourite whistleplayers probably would top the list) to drop in tonight, I am sure she’ll want to give it a whirl. I’ll post any comments later.

[PS, please don’t read a negative slant into this, I was looking for nicer/hand made Gen type and that is exactly what I got, I am happy so]

Out of interest, Peter, how much did it cost you to get hold of one in Ireland?

Also, how do you play Cnat on it? I think I’ve read that the Sindt prefers half-holing, not 0XX 000, or even 0XX X0X. I know Mary Bergin plays these, and that she also uses half-holing.

cheers, Martin.

Martin, I do think one ends up half holing
the Cnat on the Sindt D, at least on
sustained notes. It took me a very long
while to learn to half hole, but
I’m glad I did (and not only cause
it helps me play the Sindt)–
though I still am a bit wobbly.

Peter, John Sindt has a line engraved
at the top of the shaft, at least
on mine, where the whistle plays
in tune. At that line, my tuner
says I’ve got a spot on D. Pushing
in the tube I find I can go quite
sharp. Have you that line?
Does it work that way?

Will you explain equal temperament
and just tuning? Unless it takes
a treatise! Sorry if I’ve forgotten
the terminology.

It has sometimes been said on this
board that the tone of the Generation
is more complex (hence more interesting)
than that of the
Sindt–I think I understand why
people say that. There is no
question of conversion; just of
liking the Sindt, too. Best

a lot of information on temperamental tunings is at: http://www.dnai.com/~jinetwk

I play C’s like Martin has them above, but I did that already, I have a variety of Cs on the pipes and I must have transplanted some of the fingerings from there. I have no problem whatsoever playing a C on the New Toy.

PS Martin, it was $70 plus 8 for handling postage etc.

As I said, I am quite hapy with it but it didn’t shake up my world.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-03-08 11:36 ]

On 2002-03-08 10:33, Peter Laban wrote:
As I said, I am quite hapy with it but it didn’t shake up my world.

I’d have to worry if you told me your world could be shaken up by a tin whistle… :wink:

Do let us know what Brid has to say!

\


/bloomfield

[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-03-08 15:54 ]

Hiya,

I would just like to say that my Sindt whistles (I have a C and D) are beautiful instruments and get better with age and playing. I even sat on my D whistle! but managed to straighten it out and it still plays just fine. That was quite a nerve racking experience, hoping it wouldn’t snap as I bent it back…I certainly needed a couple of swift pints after that!

All that said I still love to play my Generations which to me are great whistles. Especially the older type…The ones with a join running down the centre of the mouthpiece, they don’t make them like that now, but I keep looking!
But for the clear bell like tone I would choose the Sindt and I am sure it will last as long if not longer than L.E McCullough’s ‘Bluezette’

Dave.



[ This Message was edited by: daveauty on 2002-03-11 07:32 ]

On 2002-03-08 08:09, Peter Laban wrote:
. . .
I expect Brid Donohue (who if you’d ask me my favourite whistleplayers probably would top the list) to drop in tonight, I am sure she’ll want to give it a whirl. I’ll post any comments later.

[PS, please don’t read a negative slant into this, I was looking for nicer/hand made Gen type and that is exactly what I got, I am happy so]

Please do post Ms. Donohue’s impressions. As to the second remark, I for one read your post as very positive. I’m glad that you’ve given a fair shake to a handmade whistle, and I’m even more glad that I have a couple of Sindts arriving in the late summer. While I’m a high-end whistle fan, I’m looking for a whistle that’s one step closer to traditional-sounding than the Burke WBB, while still having the playability of a Burke or Weasel.

Charlie

It would be interesting to run a few whistles through a sound analyser to see what the harmonic content of each looks like in a nice graph. I think the Sindt would come out as having less of the lower and higher end harmonics in it’s tone spectrum compared to Gen and Oak types. This makes for a more balanced range, would give you a first impression of well-behaved second octave but after playing it for a while when you go back to a cheaper type I find the cheaper ones have a bit more character.

Peter, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. About 2 years ago, I got a Sindt D. I was so pleased with it that I almost ordered the rest of the set immediately. Only my wife’s incredible grip on the checkbook stopped me. At the time, I was a fairly new to traditional Irish music, but had been playing American military and folk music (on a fife) for many years.

Since then, I’ve gotten more and more into listening to old-time Irish music. (My favorite whistle recording is of a guy named Paddy Breen - do you know him, Peter?) I find that the Sindt doesn’t have the complexity of sound, the character Peter refers to, that I hear on those old recordings. The whistle that gives me the best approximation of what I’m looking for is the Clarke original. I play mostly alone, so there isn’t really a tuning problem with the Clarke. Unfortunately, the Clarke isn’t loud enought to be heard when playing for people in any room larger than a broom closet (I play a lot of broom closets - shower stalls too).

I’m thinking about trying an Overton, or maybe a Copeland. Yeah, I know it’s not traditional to spend that much money on a whistle, but it’s a lot cheaper than a good telescope or radio controlled helicopter (I learn a lot on this board). Besides, Paddy Breen played an Orcon Flageolette, and the only one I’ve ever even seen a picture of sold for over $500 on eBay! Paddy rolled over in his grave. Now that’s a high-end whistle!

I know of Paddy Breen, he was a Clareman living in London as far as I know, I remember Tommy McCarthy talking about him. Interesting you mention the Orcon Flageolette, we’ve been trying to find out about a particular whistle Willie Clancy used to play which was described to me by one of his friends as ‘one of the usual flageolettes’ which he had got in London in the 50s. Quite likely it was one of those.

As for the Sindt, I have had some people playing it and it sounds even nicer from that perspective. :wink:

Peter,
I was a staunch Generation fan/player for many years. I tried most of the expensive hand made instruments and always found myself reaching for the Generation when I wanted to make music. About a year ago, I was in the Catskills NY at their Irish Arts Week. I took some classes with Mary Bergin, and most of the people in the class played John Sindt’s whistles - in fact John was in the class (very nice fellow by the way)! I got to try one of his whistles at the time but couldn’t afford to get one. Some months later I ordered and received one of his D whistles (I actually got an Eb/D, C and Bb/A set.) When I first got the D, I still prefered my Generation (I guess I was used to it)But after playing the Sindt for a while, it has become my very favourite instrument. I think as it is played, you adjust to it, and can bring out the best in it. I am thinking of ordering another one as a back up as I would be absolutely devestated if anything happened to it.(I still have the Generation, but rarely play it) So, my suggestion is give it some time, play it lots and I think you will find that like a fine wine, it gets better with time
Sue

Hi Sue,

Although I had enjoyed a particularly good Generation D for a long time I really loved my first Sindt D when it arrived and pretty much have stopped playing the Generation as well as some more expensive whistles. It’s funny but I had the same reaction that you are having now. After the long wait what if I lost it or something happened to it! So I immediately turned around and ordered 2 more Ds as well as a Bb and an Eb. Now I can sleep nights knowing I have my backups!

Best wishes, Tom

Tom,
I see that the only relief I will get from my anxiety is to order another, or maybe two… Thanks, and happy whistling
Sue

Peter,

I’d be interested to hear your further impressions after you’ve had the Sindt a month, or even six months. If the whistle ends up in the drawer gathering dust, because you revert gradually to your Generations, or if after giving the Sindt a lengthy test drive, and handing it round at sessions, its qualities make it the go-to whistle.

Maybe all C&F reviews could include a cooling off period re-review after the initial “wow it’s finally arrived” review. Many of my purchases (all cheapies) don’t get much play after the first week, and I keep going back to Generation & Feadog, or my trusty Clare 2-piece 'cos it’s so handy.

Peter,

I’m glad you like the Sindt. And no, I did not read anything negative into your review. After all, I would have been surprised if you had written one of the usual “my new whistle rocks!” raves.

I think, after having mine for a couple of years now, that what I like best about it is the fact that it behaves like a regular tinwhistle, rather than something else. I like the second octave on it, which I find “sweeter” (if that makes sense) than on the cheap whistles. I like the feeling of robustness of the headpiece.

:slight_smile:
Jens

My Sindt Bb is about 4-5 months away - getting keen now after reading this thread!

What I’ve found in keeping with some posts here is that my favourite (a Rose blackwood) ends up getting played all the time while the others largely gather dust, that’s why I ordered a Bb from John and not a D.

I have a Sindt D and also a Sindt C.

I totally agree with the descriptions above. The D has slightly less character than my inexpensive whisltes, but it plays so darn well, and the upper octave is the most balanced and easy to play I have ever experienced, that I keep coming back to the Sindt.

Now the C is a whole different ballgame. I think the C is the best of my Sindts. It sounds alot like my old bras Generation Bb (probably my favorite overall whistle) in tone and character and is balanced and easy to play in the upper octave like the D.

Tres

While taking a rest from this all, I feel I have to continue a conversation I have started.

Anyway, I have had another week with the new toy. I haven’t changed my mind a lot compared to the first impression. I sat down by the fire on Sunday night, played it for an hour and then took the Oak to the session. That sums it about up.

Chris Langan once remarked about one particular piper that they used to joke ‘he put pencil marks on his drones so he knew how to tune them’. This was by the way the most vicious thing I ever heard him say about another musician (to it whom it may concern, take example). As to the engraved line on the Sindt: for me the whistle plays in concert pitch well over 2 mm beyond the engraved line.

Brid Donohue played it for a bit last night, liked the sweetness of the octave (or as she put it the fact it ‘isn’t sreetchy’) and shared largely my own observations. She liked the weight in the head and the balance this gives playing it. She also remarked it was very like a whistle Willie Clancy used to have, with a lead plug in the top; I know where this whistle is residing so will possibly report back to you when I get to see it (and no Gary, this was not the E but a C , the E however may be living there as well).

So the verdict after another week: when I put it down and play the old ones I find I have a renewed and greater appreciation of the generation type whistles I have and prefer their character much to the Sindt (especially considering the latter caries a tenfold increase in price). As I said to SteveJ during the week: it compares to listening to Liam Flynn’s piping for an hour and then change to Seamus Ennis. They each have their merits but I know which of the two I like best.