Breathing.... ARGHHH!

Irish Flute
1

Hello,

I’m trying to get into flute but my biggest problem is the breath pressure. I don’t have any problem holding the flute and playing notes on the first octave, but the notes I produce on the second octave isnt pure and string, it’s kinda breathy as if the air wasnt flowing in the right direction… and also, I really can’t play lots of consecutive notes on the flute, at average speed I start from high D to high B and back to high D… about 12 upper notes and no more breath left! I can’t imagine having to breath every 12 notes in a tune!

My question is: What is the suggested practice to improve breath pressure and quantity of air I can hold… Is it better to breath often or to wait till you’re completely out of air?

For anyone willing to help me, here’s a sample I just recorded, and I think there’s
so much “air” getting out of me, wasted, you can hear it on the sample (I think). Is it normal or do I have to work on my lips positioning? Thank you!

http://pages.infinit.net/azalin/sample.mp3

— Azalin

[ This Message was edited by: Azalin on 2001-12-04 22:34 ]

2

Azalin,
Have you tried playing long tones? Start on first G, go down the scale playing each tone as long as you can , then proceed up the scale as far as you can trying to focus your air stream. Play one note for one breath.You can do some dynamics too ,just to get the muscles in shape, start soft, gradually get louder then softer gradually after your peak loudness. Also check to see how much embrochure hole you got covered with your lower lip. You can experiment with covering more (or less) and just try to remember the best position. Another exercise is octave practice, play the first octave G then slowly focus the airstream with your lips till you get the second octave. Do the same for all the other notes. Do some deep breathing exercises using your diaphragm (others say stomach muscles..whatever) breath in 8 counts, concentrating on your center abdominal muscles (make sense?), then exhale for 8 counts. Slowly increase the length of time on each end.I think you will find improvement in a short period of time. Have fun!

Tots

PS. Don’t have the tools to download your clip, but will do so later when my PC is more friendly. So I can’t comment at this point on your sound.

[ This Message was edited by: totst on 2001-12-05 00:34 ]

3

Azalin:
Part of the trick to good breathing technique is not using everything you have, and then breathing. The trick is to use some of what you have, to expend some of the “stale” air through your nose as well (literally while you’re playing), and when breathing, to take nice full breaths from the diaphram, not “gulps” of air. After awhile it become automatic.
When I’m on the flute it’s not bad at all, but where I really expend stale air thorugh the nose is on the whistle as the breathing is entirely different. As a result, I often have to fight off the urge to get light-headed and hyperventilate (not to mention the bull-snorting that can come through a microphone!) because the whistle is using so much less air and I’m holding a flute-full!
Also, key is to regulate air pressure through your lips. You’d be amazed at how the same amount of air can go a long way by regulating lip pressure. You’ll get the same note and quality, just using less air. It’s the compensation between tight lip, less air, and loose lip lots of air to produce the same tone.
Keep practicing on it!

4

Azalin,

Here is a link to discussion on the use of the diaphragm.

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=804&forum=2

Also, here is a quote from a post to the old whistle board. It might help:

Random (long and boring) breathing tutorial.

The whistle utilizes around 17 primary muscle groups to play (I just counted > :wink: > By far, the most important and largest muscle is most often overlooked - the diaphragm. Because we have been breathing our entire lives, we tend to forget that it takes training to breath properly into a wind instrument. In fact, the whistle makes us particularly neglegent because of the integral embouchure. It becomes easy to assume that we should just breath as quickly as possible whenever we can.

Now, I hate to agree with StevieJ (particularly since it is so fun to disagree with him) but playing the whistle doesn’t start at the lips. The tone is developed within the chamber of our mouths and in fact can be affected by the column of air that begins at our diaphragm. If you can imagine creating this column of air with your abdomen, chest, throat, and tongue you have grasped the first step of being able to regulate it.

Our breaths need to begin in our abdomen.

Take a deep breath. The deepest that you can.

I’m betting that the entire breath took right around a second to complete. I’m also betting that you pushed your chest out and pulled your shoulders back. That is a good model for how not to take a breath on a wind instrument.

Now take that same deep breath again and try to talk. Did you have to exhale in order to talk normally? If you can’t talk normally, you can’t play normally. With that much pressure in our lungs we can’t hope to regulate it properly. So the breath that we take is not a complete lung filling type breath. It shouldn’t even feel like it.

Instead, you should know that the diaphragm is an incredible muscle with quite able reflexes once trained. To begin that training, try taking a breath by pushing your stomach out. Give yourself about one second to take in a full breath. You’ll notice that there is still room left in you lungs. If you push out your chest and pull back your shoulders, you could complete a very deep breath. But don’t. You don’t need that extra air and would just need to get rid of it.

Try that stomach (actually diaphragm) breath again. Did you hear the rush of wind through your mouth? Hummm. You shouldn’t > :slight_smile: > We have the mental construct that we need to hear our breath in order for it to be a ‘deep’ breath. You don’t. Practice that breath until you don’t hear any noise from your mouth.

Now, wouldn’t it be nice if we had a complete second to finish all of our breathing? Of course, we don’t. But that incredible diaphragm doesn’t need a second (once trained). By opening up your throat you should be able to take a complete breath (with your diaphragm, in the manner just described) in the time that it takes to snap a finger. Once again, practice this until you can do it without making hissing noises at your mouth.

Peaceful breathing,
Erik


[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-12-05 02:22 ]

5

Azalin,

I just wanted to reiterate something David said that I think is crucial for you (having listened to your clip). You can get the same tone with alot of air or a little air. The difference is in your embrochure. Tighten up those lips and focus your air flow over the tone hole and there will be a much cleaner tone with less effort.

That said, breathing exercises can be very helpful. My flute playing has improved sinced sitting in on my daughters voice lessons where breath control is emphasized. I’ve been applying voice principles in breathing to the flute and it helps. Most of the priniciples I’m finding useful have to do with the diaphragmatic breathing that Erik was pointing out.

Keep it up… sounds like you are doing fine.

Clark

6

Hey Az,
What’s up bro? We need to keep in better touch. Drop me an e-mail and let me know what’s going on in your life.
I made a lot of progress from the beginning of the summer, when I was still really struggling on the flute to now, when I actually find the flute easier and more relaxing to play. Here are my two bits of advice. 1) Listen to your flute CDs and decide how you want to sound. Pursue that sound relentlessly. 2) Tighten your lips. 3) Relax your body. 4) Just keep trucking along. You’ll get there eventually. In the beginning the flute is very hard work, but soon you’ll be in love with it.
All the best,
your pal Chris

7

Well, not much more I can add other than this:

You might also want to spend some time practicing taking those large breaths quickly. I understand the purpose of the slow in and out breathing that has been suggested (good idea of course), but a major issue can getting a full breath quickly, so you might want to spend some time concentrating on that now and again as well.

Hey Chris,

Where are those sound clips man? Have you already posted some things to Clips and Snips that I missed?

Loren

8

I can’t say I disagree with Loren on the use of quick breaths that are full…but I must reiterate that (and this comes after teaching fifing and fluting for 20 years) that the full easy breaths are what’s crucial to understand and accomplish first. That gives specific “muscle memory” to the diaphram and how to expand it. Then as that memory lodges, the quick breaths will certainly come fuller as the diaphram is working. I’ve also taught a technique that shows breathing should be accomplished through the mouth AND the nose simultaneously. Many beginner players will not use their nose, closing the cavity at the back of the throat that allows airflow through each. It’s a reflexive thing that needs to be overcome. It’s not difficult, but, as with the diaphram, it’s a matter of muscle memory. That alone is key to quick breathing that will be full and well-measured.
The other main problem beginners have is deciding WHERE to breathe. That is extremely crucial because it will determine whether your breaths are to be full or short. The basis for determining the “where-to-breathe” placements in a tune is from the tune itself. If one has a rudimentary understanding of music and its basic patterns, it should come easily. If not, then one should have a competent instructor or, in that absence, a good collection of CDs in which to listen. The problem many flute players have is the fear of leaving any notes out of a tune. Fact is, most tunes were written for an instrument other than the flute/whistle. Ergo, no breathing necessary! That’s where phrasing comes in and how best to make the character of a tune remain intact without suffocating yourself.
Also of importance is breathing on tunes with many low notes (ie, Fermoy Lasses) will be more of a challenge than those without because of the air usage. That’s where embouchure comes in.
I know this may sound extremely complicated to some, but it really isn’t. It’s merely a matter of practice and experience, which comes pretty quickly with due diligence.

9

Loren,
Things have been super busy on the home front. I’ll try and do a couple of recordings this afternoon.
Chris

10

Thanks for your help guys, it’s been really helpful! Looks like will have to go “to war” to achieve good results, but if this is what’s required…

Also, it’s hard to fight the urge to drop the flute and get the whistle, which is soooo easy to play compared to flute! Maybe I’m gonna have to lock them down or something… Anyway, have to be ready to suffer!

Chris, will drop you a note soon, will be in Dublin at xmas, Malbay in july and then in Ireland for quite a while in september, hope to see you there!

11

Hi,
As another new player, I’m curious…I focused in on the statment “at average speed I start from high D to high B and back to high D… about 12 upper notes and no more breath left! I can’t imagine having to breath every 12 notes in a tune”. Any ballpark idea, at medium speed 1/4 notes, how many notes an average player plays between breathes ? I know this will vary tremendously based on speed, note length, phrasing, etc…but an idea would be a helpful gauge while learning. And what’s a reasonable minimum length of time to be able to hold “long notes” ? Thanks… Tod

12

In your average jig, I do part A between 1 and 1-1/2 times or so before taking a breath; then it becomes more often as the song moves on.

Erik

13

I had a similar problem, and it’s getting better. I don’t think it’s because I’m developing more lung capacity; I think it’s embouchure. When you do it right it needs less air. And also, the higher notes should take less air, not more, compared to the lower octave. I can get through a whole section (most often the B section) on one breath now if it’s all or mostly in the higher octave (when I have my higher octave working well). If it’s in the lower octave I’ll have to sneak in at least one, more likely 2 breaths in there.