does it take more breath to play the flute than the whistle?
Hi!
Well, the answer would have to be yes. But not by much. Your breath is used very differently on flute than on whistle though, so beginners, who usually don’t use air efficiently because their embouchures are not well-adapted to flutem, tend to be very short of breath, because they’re losing so much air between their lips and the flute embouchure.
Deirdre
I once heard Jack Gilder, a fine flute player and a true gentleman from the Bay Area in CA, put breath control into a neat little summation that I’ve found very helpful: it shouldn’t take any more air to play the flute than it does to talk. If you do it right, you shouldn’t be any more out of breath at the end of a conversation than you are at the end of set, he said - which is all the more meaningful if you’ve ever played a set of reels with Jack and Athena O’Lochlainn. Lordamercy…
JH.
I would have to say that I find myself more out of breath with a straight bore Low D Whistle than with a Conical Bore D Flute, but it may be my technique, wich is pretty poor on the whistle..
No, that’s about right, and Jamie’s post is right on the money. With proper breath and embouchure, a flute really shouldn’t take too much air – you really shouldn’t end up winded. Even a large Pratten type, though taking a bit more air than a small holed flute, should really respond more to well-directed air stream than to heaving your lungs like a Highland bellows. Flabby embouchure, and half of that’s wasted anyway. The other part is knowing when and how to breath, not waiting for your lungs to give out before the next breath.
A large whistle, though, does take more air, since the fipple is the fipple, and getting air into the whistle has nothing to do with a controlled blast of air directed by your lips. Some of the low D whistles are murder to make sound, though there are some that are better than others.
So how does one develop this efficiency? I find that I take about twice as much breath playing the flute as playing a low whistle. I’ve tried things like putting a hand behind the enbouchure hole to see how much “blow by” I’m getting, but that doesn’t seem much of an indicator.
Is it just plain practice, or are there excercises, experiments, etc. that help?
TIA, Charlie
I have found that by tightening, firming and crisping your embouchre, you can get much more efficient air.
I picture myself “smilling” with my lower lip. This pulls the mouth taught. I also try to visualize tightening the pores in my lips, I know this sounds odd but the image works for me 
THe idea with this is that the surface of my lips should be taught, smooth like glass.
Also pay attention to your tongue, alot of times just being aware of the shape of your mouth can alert you to things like air being to wide. If your breath is spreading to wide, you’ll be losing the same amount to the left and right of the hole as that wich goes into it!
I also experiment with different angles, degrees of attack against the far edge or the hole. picture turning the headjoint towards or away from you.
This will change the angle at which your breath hits the hole. There is a vary good chance that your airstream is going 20% in the hole and 80% over the top of it. See how much you can get into the hole while still holding tone and control.
Mirrors are good.
I was also told of a techniquewhereby you put talk or baby powder on the survace of the head, around the hole, so that you can see the “blast pattern” of your breath. I’m not sure if this would gum the flute up though. Any thoughts on that?
-Aaron
-I’d be cautious on using talc or baby powder as I’ve heard references to the stuff having similar micro-structure to asbestos fibers and having the same ability to lodge in lung tissue if inhaled.
-Flour might work, but would likely gum up the moist bore if much got inside, and would be tough to clean out, even more so if it was allowed to dry in place and create a tough glue.
I think this is a great question. Emboucher is everything in the Irish flute. That’s another of Jack’s mantras. Ornamentation, number of tunes known, etc all pale when compared to emboucher. Many of us practice more or less alone, so we don’t get to see how much production we get from our breath, compared to others. I’ll never forget seeing Conal O’Grada playing at a workshop. He filled the whole room with this booming sound. It was unbelievable.
I think it was Jack Gilder who also told me about Mona Lisa. Look at her mouth. That’s about what we should be looking like.
I’d personally rather listen to someone booming a tune without a single ornament (e.g. Fintan Vallely in “Timber, The Flute Tutor”) than hear a whispy verison of Matt Malloy or Seamus Eagan.
p.s. from a lurker’s perspecitve: the threads pertaining to HOW TO ACTUALLY PLAY THIS BLOOMIN’ THING are waaay more interesting than what flute to buy…so I highly encourage - again from a selfish perspctive - such queries.
Regards,
Jeff
On 2003-01-16 23:19, JeffS wrote:
I think this is a great question. Emboucher is everything in the Irish flute. That’s another of Jack’s mantras. Ornamentation, number of tunes known, etc all pale when compared to emboucher.I think it was Jack Gilder who also told me about Mona Lisa. Look at her mouth. That’s about what we should be looking like.
Ah, I see I’ve encountered another person with the dubious honor of having encountered Jack Gilder… ironic you should bring up his “Mona Lisa” line, condsidering what he looks like when he plays. 
I remember standing by with a friend at the Lark in the Morning camp one year while Jack was playing for a Ceili (something he excells at), when one of us commented “Does he always jiggle like that when he plays?”
I know this “traditional” stuff can be pretty uppity at times, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone look so damned perky when they’re playing.
JH.
Is Seamus Eagan well known? Were going to see him play with Tom Creegan on the 25th at Conor Byrne. I havent heard him before.
Known??
Well, yes, you could say that!
He is best known I think for his work with Solas - but he got a whistle as a pacifier and has won a couple of All-Ireland titles.
Seamus Eagan is an amazing multi-instrumentalist and a fantastic flute player.
Good stuff you can go see him play live, I envy you!
Let us know what it was like.
Cheers
Jeroen
By the way, about checking whether the airstream is focussed:
When the flute is not completely warm, your breath will condensate behind the embouchure hole. A focussed airstream will leave a neat little V shape, pointing away from you.
A widening shape means you’re loosing air.
I wouldn’t go messing with talk or flour on my flute now… yuk
cheers,
Jeroen
On 2003-01-17 01:30, Blayloch wrote:
Is Seamus Eagan well known? Were going to see him play with Tom Creegan on the 25th at Conor Byrne. I havent heard him before.
There are two Seamus Egans who play Irish trad music. (Well, maybe only one now, depending on where you stand on the “Is Solas trad?” question.) East Coast Seamus Egan (Philly, Mayo, now NYC) plays flute, whistle, banjo, mandolin, etc, etc, and is a many times All Ireland champion and founder member of Solas. West Coast Seamus Egan plays banjo, is fairly competent at it from what I’ve heard (word of mouth - I’ve never heard him play), and apparently put out an album a few years back that undoubtedly got some coat-tail sales based on confusion with the much better known Seamus Egan of Solas.
Where is Conor Byrne? If it’s west of the Mississippi, I bet you’re hearing West Coast Seamus. Give us a report!
Coming attractions in this space: Paddy (Nenagh) O’Brien vs Paddy (Offaly) O’Brien (aka “Paddy with a pulse”), Joe Banjo Burke vs Joe Accordion Burke. Stay tuned…
Thanks for the distinction on the Seamus thing. This is Seattle Washington, West Coast.
I will post some tidbits after the performance.
On 2003-01-17 19:52, Blayloch wrote:
Thanks for the distinction on the Seamus thing. This is Seattle Washington, West Coast.I will post some tidbits after the performance.
Then it’s almost certainly the west coast banjo playing Seamus Egan. He’s from Seattle.
On 2003-01-17 09:25, johnkerr wrote:
Joe Banjo Burke vs Joe Accordion Burke. Stay tuned…
Do both of them play the flute or only Joe Accordion Burke (Whom I know as mostly a flute player)?
BTW, thanks, all, for the tips on breath conservation. I’ve asked my wife (a flute major for much of college) several times, and her idea is, I’ll know it when I find it.
Only Joe Burke, accordian (and wonderful flute player), as far as I know.