I’m new to this forum (although I’ve been reading it for some time now), and have a question about wind — lungpower that is!
I’ve been playing classic transverse silver flutes, inexpensive wooden fifes, and all manner of pennywhistles for around 36 years.
I recently purchased a custom made Tipple, and discovered it takes a lot more wind than anything I’ve played before.
Is this typical of all Irish flutes? I am looking for a decent used conical delrin now, in hopes I can play longer phrases between breaths. I’m a large fellow with big hands and lungs, so I’m a bit perplexed.
It shouldn’t take that massively much more breath! A big cylindrical bore like a Tipple might need a bit more push, but not disproportionately so. I certainly wouldn’t say a good conoid bore ITM or antique flute would necessarily need more wind than a metal Boehm - though of course they vary depending on embouchure size and cut, tone-hole size and bore configuration. If anything, Boehm should take most because of the relatively large embouchure, wide cylindrical bore and huge tone-holes! I’ve never played one of Doug’s flutes so I don’t know how his embouchure cut works, but certainly with period or modern simple system and SS derived flutes with a classic C19th English elliptical embouchure, the player needs a more focussed embouchure than for French style Boehm technique and also to direct the airstream much more down into the flute - there are LOADS of threads on here about embouchure! See Terry McGee’s recent thread on Gunn’s late C18th directions regarding embouchure as a starting point. If you go seriously into ITM/simple system flute playing you will need to modify your embouchure from your classically trained Boehm approach if you are either to get anything like an authentic sound or to get any satisfaction from the instruments even if you play another genre. Good luck!
I have played a variety of wooden fifes, which are smaller but similar in principle to the Irish flutes. I don’t know if it affects this, but I had the Tipple made with a lip plate, thinking the deeper embouchure would provide a better response.
At this point, I have to actually think about my embouchure when I pull out the old Gemeinhardt. My low D Chieftain whistle has been my favorite for years now. I just miss the inflections available with a flute, and love bending notes.
Jemtheflute has answer the question pretty well, I believe. I don’t think that my low D, cylindrical-bore pvc flute should take that much air to blow, especially my flutes with a lip plate headjoint with a greater embouchure chimney depth than found on most modern wooden Irish flutes. I am currently using a circular embouchure hole with a diameter of 9.5 mm. This forces the player to use a more focused embouchure than they may be accustomed to with flutes with larger embouchure holes. However, the smaller embouchure hole works well on my flutes because it is important to keep a good balance between embouchure size and bore diameter. My flutes have a rather large 20 mm diameter cyclindrical bore. Conical-bore flutes that compress the air towards the end of the flute allow for a larger-cut embouchure hole to achieve a similar balance.
The secret of playing my flutes, in my opinion, is to cover at least half of the embouchure hole with your lower lip and to direct a focused stream of air down into the flute. When I blow this way, I find that I need very little air to make a sufficiently loud tone. However, if I change my embouchure so that none of the embouchure hole is covered and the stream of air is directed over the blowing edge, it clearly takes a lot more air to blow like that, and the flute doesn’t sound very good either.
^I got the custom two-piece gray with the wedge and lip plate from you. I do cover part of the hole with my lip; and it does get wonderful tones!
I recently started recording a new ‘Irish’ folk song that I’m using it on, and even on my inexpensive condenser mic the tone is rich. I just seem to only be able to get about 2/3 of my usual phrases out before I run out of air.
I’m not turning loose of it - but I was thinking of trying one of the conical bore delrins to see if I could do a bit better. Frankly, I wish you offered them because your workmanship is excellent!
*Edit - in all fairness, I spent the afternoon playing with my embouchure lipped up a bit more and it did dramatically decrease the amount of air I needed. It seemed extreme, but it did the trick.
… Thanks for the tip up!
I got my first low D Chieftains whistle after I saw Davy Spillane in the original Riverdance (how embarrassing, but true). It has been my favorite ever since, and is what led me back to flutes after over a decade of ignoring my transverse flute in favor of pennywhistles and fifes; which allow me to bend notes in ways my classic open hole silver flute would not.
Now the lure of cross blown keyless flutes has tantalized me with the best of what I liked about both.
i can play much longer on my copley headjoint (avatar) than my antique english flute. it probably depends on the flute… my copley has a smaller embouchure hole than the antique, and is probably much more efficient.
Do more exercises…
You can always cover more of the embouchure hole with your lip, thus reducing the size. That is a big blow hole on the Gisborne, though!
I think it’s worth reading Terry McGee’s post on the “ITM embouchure”. The “classical” embouchure blows more across the flute, whereas the ITM approach blows more “into” the flute. I started with a more classical approach and it took me a while to appreciate the difference. Once you get it right, the ITM approach uses less air, as well as having the right sound.
Jimbuk,
I have a hard time with the search function on this board. Can you provide a link to the Terry McGee discussion on ITM embouchure? It sounds worth reading.
The Tipple flute generally is quite good in its use of air, so, frankly, it seems likely that it’s more a matter of adjusting your embouchure to the flute.
Try long tones, while adjusting your embouchure to find an “efficient” spot on the flute’s embouchure.
For a piece of plumbing plastic, the Tipple flute is downright impressive, a good choice!.
been embouchure posts since long before the Flute forum split off…
Still people sayin’ that Boehm players all blow across the hole with smiley faces and don’t cover much of the hole.
Might still have been true in the 70’s…dunno
Still depends on the sound that you want for the tune you’re playin’ and if you’re good enough to get that sound.
There’s them that can do amazing things with a bamboo flute with minimal chimney height.
Ya gotta hit the edge right…
Maybe I got lucky, and this was years before the smiley face came along, but in my first few years of flute playing none of my music teachers knew anything about flutes, so I was more or less on my own as to how to get a flute to work. Now, these were talented music teachers, who could at least play a piano and organize a choir, no problem, but they just didn’t have any particular knowledge of flutes.
Blow across the hole with a smiley face? Thank goodness, nobody ever suggested that to me.
Indeed! But it’s only a model! (ref: Monty Python & the Holy Grail)
I have had much lovely advice since my initial post. But I think I should qualify. I’ve been a writer/singer/mult-musician since the 60’s, when I was first influenced by Irish music. As no one was qualified to tell me different, I lipped up my silver transverse (Boehm) flutes from the start, and only blow across the hole when I want rounder tones. I prefer the breathier sounds, myself. I even took a whack at making PVC flutes about 15 years ago (nothing the quality of Doug’s). There was nothing suggested above that I had not tried; I had read Terry McGee’s articles previously (big respect); but after acquiring both a very nice custom gray Tipple and a second-hand Dixon 3pc (here) - I realized it is the embouchure of the instrument that made a difference for me personally. I now can see I need an oval or rounded rectange to play comfortably, and much prefer the larger finger holes of Doug’s flutes to the smaller. So now I’m thinking M&E, Forbes, or Copley as I want to stay with Delrin or similar material. I have searched and found several comparisons, but would be interested in any links to more.
There was not a lot of Irish music available to listen to back then (in the 60’s) that I could find in the USA, but what I heard I liked; and I like the singing as much as the playing of Irish style music. Around 1969, I went to a regular bluegrass session in downtown Richmond, VA (USA) with my old Armstrong flute, and played Irish riffs along with the old bluegrass standards. The players were chuckling in disbelief until they heard how it fit in, and became extremely interested in this ‘Irish music stuff’.
I have performed my own music professionally for most of my life with some successes (beyond earning a paycheck). I write a in a variety of styles, so as I understand it… I don’t really qualify as an ITM by the standards of some of the members of this forum (as evidenced in the ‘close enough for jazz’ thread). I believe I would come under the heading of ‘that fusion stuff’. Considering that modern guidelines are far more persnickety than what I heard those early musicians playing (other than the Chieftains - my personal favs), I would say some of those early artists who did things their own way and developed the styles heard today, might not qualify either. I should post this in the cefj thread, but I think my experience may not be in step with a good deal of the established members; so I’m sort of wrapping it up here.
I’ve been reading Chiff & Fipple for at least 3 years and recently joined largely to make purchases from members. There are some very gifted and knowledgeable people on this forum (along with the usual run of pot stirrers, which I don’t wish to become). So I will continue to enjoy your posts of information and lovely music, but will likely remain a reader only; with the exception of buying or selling the odd piece.
Thanks for all your responses - keep up the good work!
Slainte, Saoibhreas, Sonas agus Gradh… Peace.
been embouchure posts since long before the Flute forum split off… 
