Boxwood vs. Blackwood

Hmm interesting, I wonder what wood that it? I’ve never heard of a true Boxwood (Buxus) that grows in africa, so I imagine it’s some other species.


Loren

It is known as Gonioma Kamassi, from Africa, I don’t know the properties fo it.Might be worth looking into.

http://www.biochemj.org/bj/006/0127/bj0060127_browse.htm

Possibly some toxicity going on there.

Kevin Krell

Kind of a old report there, Kevin.
Remember, this is the same timeframe, when Coca Cola was made with cocaine… :sunglasses:

Nothing beats the 200 year old Boxwood!
Here is a My Metzler next to the visiting Murray, I hope the Murray isn’t contagious! :smiley: There having a great time together, really hit it off!

To chime in a bit late (I was out of net contact), I’d pretty much agree with all that’s been said. One big advantage of boxwood is it’s lightness. It makes a big difference in a keyed flute. OTOH, if light is what you want, you can just go for an all-wood flute. The absence of a few ounces in the head make not only for a lighter flute, but a more well-balanced one. The main disadvantage is that it does tend to warp. Some makers actively discourage customers from ordering fully keyed flutes. Evidently Mr. Murray isn’t one of them, though, and he wouldn’t be selling them if there was a problem with the keys leaking. I might add that I’ve had three keyed box flutes from the early- to late-19th century and all the keys seal just fine.

There’s also the allergy issue – I’ve never heard of a boxwood allergy.

If weight and allergies are not issues for you, then it really ought to come down to sound – if you subscribe to the idea that wood affects the sound of the flute, would you rather have a blackwood sound or a boxwood sound?

would you rather have a blackwood sound or a boxwood sound?

Both!

If we’re considering a Sam flute, then I woud suggest that the weight issue is negligible because Murrays have a very thin slender tube and only a partially lined head. Coming from my M & E to a 6-key Murray (ABW) is like night and day. The Murray feels like a feather, the MERR feels like a baseball bat in comparison.

I am blessed with two Sam Murray flutes: one a keyed boxwood, the other an unkeyed blackwood. The boxwood is much more humidity-sensitive, so I’m never without a roll of Teflon tape when I play it. Needless to say, when the humidity’s above 60% it’s a very happy flute (meanwhile, the Olwell boxwood seems to be liking life best around 50 - 55%; when it gets really soaked after a few hours’ playing it’s hard to take apart!).

Anyway, both Murrays are absolutely brilliant flutes, for different reasons I suppose. But overall, people seem to remark that the boxwood is “sweeter” and the blackwood is “brighter.” When I play them, I feel like the blackwood has more of a yelp and a resonance to it (it’s my “rock ‘n’ roll” flute, :laughing:), so I tend to take it to sessions more. The boxwood’s, well, not really so much mellow as just plain sweet, so I often turn to it when I’m playing with smaller groups or into a microphone. It is a darling of a flute, and not without its own power, but I tend to think of it as just a tiny bit quieter.

The boxwood is light as a feather, that’s for sure. Even with keys it still feels a shade lighter than its blackwood brother. I do like that the boxwood’s keys seem to balance the flute perfectly; the keyless blackwood is just a trifle head-heavy.

My boxwood Murray’s head came to me quite warped, but I don’t think it hurts anything. I don’t think it’s straightened out any during my tenure, although I suspect I keep it in a slightly lower-humidity environment than its previous home (New Orleans).

Oh, and both flutes have repaired cracks; the boxwood in the barrel and foot; the blackwood in the barrel and head. So there ya go; both kinds of wood can crack.

Both flutes have partially lined heads (slide sleeve & barrel only).

Even after nearly two years playing both, I can’t say which one is my favorite. :slight_smile:

And no, this polygamy only applies to flutes. I have one beau and I’m perfectly happy with him. :laughing:

Neener, neener, neener. Told ya! :wink:

P.S. I TOTALLY agree on the tuning; Murrays seem to require the least player adjustment across all scales. As for lip position, my experience is that Murrays sound more like Murrays (I use pre-“Spirit” Liam Kelly and several other Murray mavens as my aural guides) when they sit higher on your lip. I’ve also borne amazed witness while Louise Mulcahy got a perfect (and loud!) sound out of my boxwood Murray this way.

So, try positioning the far edge of the blowhole at the “bow” in your upper lip and roll down from there. In my experience, the way Sam cuts the blowing edge lets you REALLY roll in for a super-strong bottom without going too flat, and having the flute ride higher seems to let you push that envelope; i.e., roll in more. (Note how far I’m rolling in in the photo at left; that’s my boxwood and it’s got a killer low register)

Also, make sure you’re not pushing the flute too hard against your chin or jaw. Indeed you can push hard with these pups; the flute will take it without breaking the note – but in my experience it’s when you let the flute “float” there, resting lightly, that you get the maximum Murray vibrancy (and that’s what’s so addicting about them, I think) and color.

Finally, I’m all about thread lapping for the reasons outlined above. If I need a tighter seal, I just add a wrap or two of Teflon tape and then take it off when I’m done. No biggie.

Think it might be a matter of comparison. I started with a Muramatsu boehm flute and now my M&E is not so heavy. :slight_smile:

Bart

Cathy, I wonder, are both exactly similar? In terms of embouchure holes, tapering, finger holes. Only if those parameters are just the same one can distinguish one sort of wood from the other.

‘Sience’ says you can’t. :sunglasses:

Bart

It isnt really a weight issue, it’s a balance one.

And yes-you-told-me.

Not that I’m complaining.

On the tuning front, my open holes (Murray) are all spot-on as far as I can tell. OTOH my c-natural key seems a bit flat. I’m hoping it will go more in tune as the cork on the bottom of the key compresses, allowing a bit more clearance from the hole. (If that made any sense). I’m now a converted believer in the Cnatural key, especially in the second octave for tunes like “Richard Dwyer’s.”

If you need more clearance, you can use sandpaper or an emory board to lightly sand off a little bit of the cork bumper.

Loren

Science hasn’t, to my knowledge, been properly applied to the issue yet. Certainly the “concrete flute” paper was junk science.

Every maker worth his lathe, files, and ears will tell you different body materials do make a difference, however large or small, in the sound of an instrument - all other things being equal.


Loren

Isn’t this what they call to romanticize, “in the clouds”? There was an article published by Gemeinhardt (if I do recall well) where they - based on science - demonstrated that there was no difference between the sound of (Boehm) flutes made of nickel, silver plated, silver or gold.

Varèse’s ‘Density’ made for a platinum flute was sheer Harry Potter fantasy. But a good piece. :smiley:

I think it makes sense: with a flute -in opposite to guitar/violin - it’s the vibration of the air column that makes the sound, not the material. Can’t imagine a Ebbony or African blackwood flute to vibrate when playing.

Of course, if one makes a flute out of permeable wood or out of foam rubber it makes a difference, but then things aren’t equal.

And of course, junk science has been and will remain for ever.

As will make-believe. :slight_smile:

Bart

You’d have to produce said Gemeinhardt’s scientific report for me to believe it even existed, let alone that they stated materials make no difference in tone.

Regardless, I know what my ears, and those of countless other professional flute, recorder, and whistle makers will tell you - the materials do make a difference, to some degree or another, in an instruments sound. It’s true that many people can’t hear a difference, but then many people can taste the difference between different types of salt (sea salt, Kosher, Iodized) or Pepper corns, but a trained Chef, or even simply a good cook, can tell you eyes closed, just by tasting.

Same with woodwind materials and internal bore finishes.



Loren

I think the reason the material makes a difference is a result of density, texture of the internal bore, and wall thickness. While the main element of the sound is the vibrating air column, that same column of air would interact to a degree with the instrument itself. That’s basic physics. To see this principle in action in a more dramatic way play first outside in the open air, then play in your kitchen or bathroom. Any accousticians in the house? The same principle would apply to the body of the flute itself. Unless I’m mistaken, of course. That’s a possibility I never discount.

It would be interesting to take different flutes of exact same dimensions made of different materials, and different flutes made of same materials with different dimensions, and measure the variences in tone using modern analytical devices. Anybody up to that? (I’m not a flute maker, or I would try it myself.) Maybe we could bring a few other flute makers into it as well to see if results of the initial study could be replicated.

This topic has been discussed endlessly here and elsewhere, but I’d say Gemeinhardt’s findings are totally believable given that he’s talking about different metals on a smoothly finished cylindrical-bore metal flute.

The only place where I think “materials make a difference” is when you’re talking about a wooden flute, where the slightly rougher finish of the inside of a boxwood bore might be setting up additional perturbations to the air column compared with the inside finish of a blackwood flute, which is smoother.

When you look down the bore of a well-finished blackwood flute it’s often so smooth that it’s reflective. The bore of a boxwood flute is matte and doesn’t look shiny (at least the ones I’ve looked down). A very subtle difference and yet I suspect this is what accounts for people discerning a “mellower” tone from boxwood.

And yet there is no way to test it because nobody can make two wooden conical-bore flutes that are exactly alike in every way except for the wood.