Hey!
I am considering upgrading my keyless Blackwood Sam Murray flute to an 8 keyed Murray flute.i am being tempted to go for boxwood over the standard blackwood.I have played a keyless boxwood murray flute before and really liked the weight feel and tone of it, but i was just wondering does anyone have bad experiences with keyed boxwood flutes?are they more prone to cracking than blackwood flutes?Which would be better in your opinion?
Not more prone to cracking, at least in my experience, but definitely more prone to warping and more sensitive to changes in humidity in general.
Indeed. I have a Chabrette (French bagpipe) in boxwood. All Chabrettes are traditionaly made of boxwood and - sooner or later - they’ll warp.
Bart
Yes, warpage and ovaling are definately issues with boxwood. I’ve seen many boxwood woodwinds that have survived many years with very little dimensional diverson, however these are typically only Boxwood instruments that have been sealed in some way, and most flute makers I am aware of don’t do this.
Boxwood can also be susceptible to “Blue Streak” mold, depending on several things, including how the wood is processed after cutting.
Also, Boxwood typically absorbs more moisture when you play, so it’s not uncommon for the top joint on Boxwood flutes to swell so tight that one can’t comfortably separate that top tenon from the socket, without first letting the instrument sit overnight to dry out. This is rarely an issue with Blackwood flutes.
As mentioned though, Boxwood is far less susceptible to cracking than Grenadilla, so there is a trade off.
Loren
Boy, do I love polymer and delrin, good sound, no problems. 
Bart
I know, I have your old Boxwood Murray on my workbench right now… 
The boxwood Murray is very light and responsive, and has a nice mellow tone. I agree Blackwood is a lot more stable. Every time I open the case to my antique boxwood Metzler I wonder if I will be looking at a banana!
i too, think that Boxwood is less likely to crack, but it does warp, and keys may go out of linement(SP) and not seal as good?
i had a hard time ordering a blackwood keyed flute from Peter Noy since i really wanted Boxwood, and had i ordered a keyless, i would have ordered it in Box, but because of the keys, i ordered Blackwood…i love that flute.
eilam.
What items in particular have you swearing?
Mellow tone?!? You better blow a litter harder on that thing my friend, it’s no shrinking violet! And, while it can be mellow, it’s also capable of plenty of growl and edge, although not quite so much edge as a Blackwood flute of the same design.
Is it there for re-corking of the top-tenon? I’ll warn you not to attempt turing that tenon down in an effort to improve the socket tenon fit when wet: Sam makes those things thin as can be as it is, and turing that tenon down further, or taking more material off the socket, is just asking for trouble. Hear me now and believe me later, as the parody saying from SNL goes.
As I told the new owner, that flute needs to be kept at a more or less constant humidity (of about 65%) other wise, like most thin walled boxwood bodies, any warpage or ovaling is exacerbated. Aside from the tight top tenon, I had little trouble with that flute as long as I kept it properly humidified. Sadly, a previous owner had overhumidifed the flute for a period of time, and otherwise neglected it, which allowed the blue-streak to bloom, and probably gave the flute a bit more predisposition to movement than it would have otherwise had. Still, once that thing is played in, it’s a monster of good flute. Those new pads are still seating and settling, most likely, btw.
Loren
P.S. If you want to see something odd Jon, have a look at the underside of the short F key - somone, somewhere along the line (well before I got the flute) double riveted the key spring 
WTF? I mean the rivet itself is well enough done, but why, and why that placement? It serves no functional purpose that I can see, as the initial rivet is intact and perfectly placed. Oddly enough, the spring bearing plate for that key spring, which I’ve since replaced, broke clean off due to heavy rust/corrsion of the plate, which was itself a replacement (I could see previous evidence of the original plate having been pried off). None of this seems to have had any negative impact on the function of the key, just another one of those mysteries…
Loren
One plus of Boxwood is that because it absorbs more moisture while playing, it drips less.
I haven’t had keys go out of alignment, but when it’s dry, the blocks on my Bb boxwood flute tend to pinch the keys a bit, making them return to the closed position in slow motion 
My flute doesn’t warp lengthwise but the ovaling thing happens when it’s exposed to low humidity. The tenons become so out of round that I can’t put the flute together. A few hours in a humidified container puts everything back to normal.
Loren, the “blue streak” mold sounds positively appetizing…think I’ll order me up a Roquefort Flute with some apple slices on the side. Yum.
and here is my own banana boxwoodflute. when the flute is kept at constant temperature and humidity, it is usually nice and straight. but after a few days at room temperature in my living room, it looks like this:
Great illustration Claudine.
Some of this has to do with seasoning I’m afraid - most “Irish” flute makers don’t work with boxwood enough (or have enough years with it) to fully appreciate how long the stuff needs to season once the production process begins: Even Box that’s been seasoning in billet form for 20 years, can’t be then turned into a flute in just a few months - from billet to completed instrument needs to take a year minimum, and that’s for wood that has been sitting properly billeted for many years.
Brad, glad I was able to whet your appetite on this Thanksgiving Day 
Come to think of it, that Blue Streak does look a bit like blue cheese in color…
Loren
Hi,
When I say mellow tone, it does not mean that it can’t honk, it is just rounded off on the edges…
We are going back to thread wrapping, the cork fell right off the tenon in one piece. I guess oil got under the cork and loosened up the glue. To bad about the discoloration, but it kind of gives it the “Camo” look. The flute is beeing stored in a constant humidity inviornment at the moment.
I wonder what R&R flute that Murray copied for this flute, does anyone know? It seems to play best at 430 Htz tuning.
The new pads are sealing well, I am not messing with them.
Geeze, I debated offering to thread the tenons, but only the top cork was showing signs of coming loose, so it seemed unreasonable at the time. And in general I just hate thread, particularly on tenons as tight as the top one, because when the tenon/socket joint is tight, and you have thread that’s got very little ability to compress, and then the thread gets wet and swells, and the tenon swells, and then you go to take the joint apart… well, there’s that sound of socket’s cracking that I just hate…
You really think it plays best at A= 430??? Do you tend to play flat or sharp by nature? That Murray plays the same as the other half dozen Murray’s I’ve had across my bench, which is to say that for me, at A=440, it plays with the most well intonated scale of any wooden flute I’ve run across, I wish my Olwell had that even a scale!
The only thing I can think of, aside from player induced issues, is the fact that Sam cuts his embouchure blowing wall at a far more radical angle that most makers - that is, the blown wall angles far more off from zero degrees (if zero is established at 90 degress to the plane of the TDC where the hole was drilled), than other makers I’ve run across. As such, the player must position his/her mouth and lips in a significantly different place relative to the embouchure hole in order to achieve the “same” relative tuning on another flute.
I know you’ve run across other Murrays Jon, does this one really seem so different, I mean A=430, wow. I really didn’t have that experience with it at all. In fact, I tended to pull the tuning slide out significantly further on my Olwell, in order to play at A=440
Loren
I used to think that way about threaded tenons. Actually it is better for a tighter tenon-socket fit, as it can be adjusted, by adding or removing thread. When trying to cork tenons that are tight, the cork gets to thin. I use silk or polyester thread, the thread will not absorb moisture and swell. The thread gives added support to the tenon.
You really think it plays best at A= 430??? Do you tend to play flat or sharp by nature? That Murray plays the same as the other half dozen Murray’s I’ve had across my bench, which is to say that for me, at A=440, it plays with the most well intonated scale of any wooden flute I’ve run across, I wish my Olwell had that even a scale!
I am not saying that the flute can not be played in 440, I just meant that there are fewer errors in the tuning at 430 htz. The cork fell off before I could get more into the flute, maybe after I got used to the emb. hole, it might be different. With Terry Mcgee’s measurement for best intended pitch, measuring between C# and Eb it would be based on a 430Htz model. (Although I have to fudge, as there is no Eb key…
)
Before the hail storm crashes over my head…This is not to say that I don’t think the Murray is a great flute, I actually like the classic Rudall tuning (bottom end a little flat.)
The only thing I can think of, aside from player induced issues, is the fact that Sam cuts his embouchure blowing wall at a far more radical angle that most makers - that is, the blown wall angles far more off from zero degrees (if zero is established at 90 degress to the plane of the TDC where the hole was drilled), than other makers I’ve run across. As such, the player must position his/her mouth and lips in a significantly different place relative to the embouchure hole in order to achieve the “same” relative tuning on another flute.
I know you’ve run across other Murrays Jon, does this one really seem so different, I mean A=430, wow. I really didn’t have that experience with it at all. In fact, I tended to pull the tuning slide out significantly further on my Olwell, in order to play at A=440 >
First Murray that I have run across. I am just referring to the best intended tuning of the original flute that was copied. One interesting side note, if you ever listen to Mad for Trad flute tutorial, Seamus is playing, tuned to 430 htz. he is playing a Olwell flute. It is great as long as you don’t invite the accordians!
I think you may find that boxwood is the lightest of flute woods and delrin is heavier than the heaviest flute woods. But then, what’s the weight of a flute compared with a longship oar I suppose?
Do you have any idea why flautists love boxwood? There are “no problems” if you don’t.
Who needs an oar when he/she lives in the Netherlands?
And I’m a healthy strong man, give me a concrete flute.
Now seriously, I’d like to share some water with you down-under, the papers overhere are full with stories about the lack of water in Australia.
Feel truly sorry.
Bart
I think I’d prefer that moisture in the other guys’ beer rather than swelling the tenons on my flute, especially having seen the impossible-to-remove tenon problem up close.
The no-crack aspect of box is nice though.
To the original poster:
If you do order a Boxwood from Sam, ask if he has any of that red “African” boxwood lying around.
Just to add that I’ve owned three boxwood flutes, still
have two of them, and never had the slightest problem
with any of them. Never went out of my way to
take special care of them. It’s been years.
Not that the reports aren’t true,
but boxwood flutes aren’t all like that.