Hello to all – I’m a newbie not only to the boards but to the world of woodwinds entirely. I’ve taken my shoes off at the door and promise to behave myself nicely.
I’ve recently become a bit interested in, for some unknowable reason, the keyless flute. I’ve been a pianist since I was little and also play lever harp, both with a strong classical bent (meaning notation, scales, composing/arranging, that sort of thing). I’ve noodled on a few other instruments, including viola (way too big and too heavy) and trumpet (too much of an overbite to make that work). I’d like to try a keyless flute – and especially to take a purely by-ear approach to it, no notation really, just to see what happens. I think I’d like to stick with keyless as well, just because the older I get the more I have begun to appreciate uncomplicated technology with zero moving parts. I like the idea of playing something that I could hand to someone 400 or 40,000 years ago and have them recognize it and know what to do with it.
The thing is, I’m a left-hander and can’t stomach the idea of playing on my right side. These are simple enough instruments that I think if I get in-line tone holes, there shouldn’t be any issues with playing a normal flute on my left side. Are there actually any other differences? Is the embouchure hole shaped differently, thinned out on one side or the other, or is it totally symmetrical? I’ve decided to get a Tipple low D for the moment to get up to speed, but if I do take to it I’m interested in getting an keyless M&E polymer low D as the one to stick with. Would that work for someone blowing lefty?
I managed to get hold of a pyrex flute in G from Amazon and am currently driving my neighbors insane with it, and I can at least get from C to C on it, and a little below.
Anyhow, nice to meet you all and thanks for any information you can share. I feel a bit ridiculous playing an Irish instrument since all of my grandparents were born in Italy, but it’s such an appealing device. I hope I don’t come across as any more of a fish out of water than I typically do.
Part of the art of making flutes is cutting the embouchure. You should consult Mr. Cronolly.
There have been fine ‘ciotog’ flute players,Patsy Hanly, for example, using dextro flutes. But I don’t know if the original embouchure has been doctored.
Good Luck
Yeah, I asked the Irish Flute Store about this, and they offered to ask Michael Cronnoly about it, so getting the answer from the horse’s mouth is definitely the best option. For the moment I’ve now got a Tipple PVC flute from someone on the board named fearfeasog who was very nice, shipped promptly, and packed it so securely that I wasn’t entirely sure how to get into the packing tube. I’m currently making the odd noise on it and trying to detect trends and tips. The stretch is not pleasant but not too bad, especially if I use my pinky on the lowest hole. Even then, as long as I don’t worry about covering the hole with my fingertip but accept covering with the area between the first and second joint, it works fine with the ring finger as well.
Should be fun! I’ve been trying to manage a portable instrument of some kind for a while, and I think this may be the one for me.
I have an M&E polymer and to my eye both sides of the embouchure seem to be undercut the same amount. Playing it on the other side seems to sound the same also. It’s a very good flute, I’d recommend it.
By the way if you’re struggling to reach the holes at the bottom, look up the piper’s grip. It sounds like you’ve started to use it yourself.
I did ask him through his contact page, but he hasn’t gotten back to me yet. I’m fine for the moment on the Tipple, though. I’ll probably get the M&E for myself when I hit the big 5-0 this March.
Yeah, the piper grip is much more comfortable, but I’m a bit concerned that the position of my thumb may interfere with using a few keys on the chance that I end up with a keyed flute in the future. Right now, my thumb is in more like the dizi position, which is a million times more comfortable than putting it in the “correct” spot. I don’t want to paint myself in the corner, though.
Hello Jim, this is Shanti (Susan Hartstein)! I found you here from a Google search. It would be nice to connect with you personally. My email address is with my account.
Yeah, I started with that sort of thing (flat on the outside hand, classical on the inside). I’m fairly sure that I have a pretty deeply buried ganglion cyst in my right hand, though. Keeping the long bones of the hand and the arm lined up feels a lot better on the “upstream” hand. I guess it’ll take a while for me to work out what the best way is for me to manage it. It’s not bad, though – clearly, there are ways to do it that feel good and comfortable.
It’s starting to hit me though that working out the fingers will take a little bit, working out the embouchure will take a lot longer, and working out the breathing will take a lifetime. I think if we didn’t have to breathe, we could all be virtuoso flute players inside of about four years. sigh
Mick’s webmaster is a regular at our local session, which happens to be tonight. If I see him I’ll ask. I’m sure he’ll either know or at the very least can put you in touch. I still have mine, I suppose I could give it a go, but it’s about 10 years old and he could have updated his embouchure cut since then (and trying to get me to play lefty typically leads to comical results).
If he does use an asymmetrical cut, I’m sure it’s not too much of an issue to ask him to make you a “lefty” to order. It’ll take a bit longer to get but he’s usually happy to help with any custom work you need done. I do highly recommend his flutes for beginners.
Excellent! I know what I’m getting for myself as a birthday present for the big 5-0, then!
I’m also pleased because my copy of Grey Larsen’s flute/whistle book arrived last night, and I’ve been reading up on it. He seems to touch on everything that I’ve been wondering about in really thoughtful detail. So far, it’s just a fantastic book, and I’m thrilled with it.
ETA: And it’s on its way! I turn 50 next month, and I consider a nice flute to be excellent compensation for the fact that I also just bought my first pair of progressive lens glasses.
So it’s here, it’s lovely, and I’ve learned two things:
Michael Cronnolly makes wonderful flutes, but so does Doug Tipple. I’m REALLY surprised at how the Tipple stacks up against it, although the M&E does blow a little sweeter so far. Of course, as this opinion is coming from a truly rank beginner, it’s worth what you paid for it. But the Tipples really are incredible value for money.
I’m also really enjoying blowing opera melodies out of it, as incongruous as that is.
It’s not incongruous at all. Most so-called Irish flutes are based on 19th century models, and that’s exactly the sort of thing folk might have played on them, whether in some kind of orchestral/group context, as base material for the variation showpieces favoured by everyone from more advanced amateurs to the great virtuosi, or simply because they liked them.
I like Doug’s flutes quite bit, but the M&E will allow you to do more, at least in my opinion, as you become more experienced. M&Es are good flutes and a great starting point.
I agree, I found the Tipple really strong with a particularly rich low-D. However I found the M&E much easier to play in the second octave. For a long time I thought I had a bad embouchure as I couldn’t play high tunes on the Tipple without them sounding very whistley or loud, but once I got the M&E I was suddenly able to play all the high tunes I’d been avoiding.
I’m finding myself settling into the M&E nicely (it has a really nice reedy sound), and I’m also pleased that my top hand is settling into what I’d call the “correct” shape just through repetitive playing while mentally focusing on staying as relaxed and supple as possible. Evidently, if I pursue that, the hand will naturally find the “right” shape. It took some extremely subtle shifts in position, a millimeter here for the thumb, an eighth of an inch the other way for the knuckle, and before I knew it, the hand started to settle into a good place.
It’s terrific fun! I wish I didn’t have to wait so long to get a keyed flute, but I have a universe yet to learn on the keyless as it is, so I have plenty to keep myself occupied with. But at least now I’m confident that I can continue on the way I’m going and know that my hands will not mind and I will be able to move to an 8-key flute at some point in the (distant) future without having to revamp everything.
I’ve also been amusing myself listening to people you all probably know about but who are all new to me: Matt Molloy is amazing, and watching Orlaith McAuliffe is like watching Hilary Hahn play Paganini. She’s almost inhumanly good.
I’m glad things are going so well for you! It’s a fun new adventure to start on. Keep listening to those and other great flute payers…it helps immensely…and of course practice, practice, practice!
Keeping the long bones of the hand and the arm lined up feels a lot better on the “upstream” hand. I guess it’ll take a while for me to work out what the best way is for me to manage it. It’s not bad, though – clearly, there are ways to do it that feel good and comfortable. 