I have a Doug Tipple flute. I have been playing whistle for about 10 months and I have had the flute for about 6 or 7 months I guess. I like the tone although It is not quite as loud as I would like. My problem is that it is not at all forgiving in terms of beginners embouchure. I play every day and am struggling to play the most basic tune whereas with whistle I can play some polkas and jigs etc. I have had two flute players pick it up briefly and both said basically, great sound but very precise embouchure needed. I live in Sicily so there is nowhere to really go and check out other flutes. I wonder if anyone has experience with a similar Doug Tipple and M&E or Walt Sweet Shannon. Would these be a little easier to play? Or should I just keep plugging away with the Doug Tipple flute and save some money.? I want to stick with Polymer for price and because Sicily is hot and humid. I’ll be in London in September so hopefully I can try something to get a comparison. Any advice really welcome.
i am a beginner just a little less recent than you.
i played a tipple for a while and agree about it needing a precise embrouchure.
i like composite instruments and have played and owned the following.
the garry somers R and R is amazing and extremely forgiving.
next(very very close second) i would rank the shannon and the somers pratten.
any of these are indestructible for all practical purposes and will be good players new or used. have not tried any others.
meir
That is really helpful, thank you so much. I will try to have a play on one when I go to London ins Sept. I know Hobgoblin stock the Somers Pratten. I will ask if they have the R & R as well.
“Being precise” with your embouchure is a very good thing! Just work at it. A good habit acquired early will stand you in very good stead forever and with other instruments. An “easy blowing” or “forgiving” instrument will not set you up as well as you can get away with being lax and imprecise on it. And in any case, my experience of Tipples would not be that they are particularly “demanding”. Are you doing mirror practice, examining your embouchure and developing the necessary lip conformation and fine muscle control? You cannot expect to pick up the transverse flute and just “go” with tune playing to the same extent as you can a whistle, certainly not in terms of tone-production. (However, I am not at all arguing against the idea of acquiring a Somers flute! Personally I’m not so keen on the other alternative mentioned.)
You may find this helpful (whatever you end up doing instrument-wise): https://app.box.com/s/uc8jvqt6erwijyfksdi5
Thanks Jem,
I actually saw your videos with the Tipple, nice playing. One of the reasons I bought it. I’m trying mirror work and long tones low and high. It is coming just very slowly. One of the guys who told me this flute in particular has a demanding embouchure is a well known whistle maker who also plays flute. The other is a music prof who plays boehm system. I don’t know. It is coming slowly so i’ll persevere and keep putting the work in for the next couple of months then I’ll try the Somers in London.
Interesting link too.
Thanks again for your input, much appreciated.
Russ
FWIW, embouchure comes online (really online) pretty slowly. In my case I didn’t have a reliable tone for nine months. After you’ve got it it improves indefinitely, for years anyway. Long tone exercises help, overtone exercises help. I also played higher pitched flutes (e.g. Bb, A, G), sometimes Tipples, sometimes Sweethearts, and so on. These make a lot of demands and so improve embouchure, and of course you can play tunes. They can be very satisfying to play. I agree with the advice of trying other D flutes, and the Tipple will have enough volume as your embouchure improves. Patient steady practice…
I vaguely remember when I was a new fluter of 8 years old but I do remember doing endless exercises to gain embouchure strength and flexibility as well as the right finger, hand and arm strength to play. It takes a long time to develop good embouchure and good tone. Daily exercises both on the flute and exercises you can do off the flute to build the right muscles really help. This is actually one area where classical flutists are typically light years ahead of folk flutists and it can really help push a beginner along. I recommend etudes, long tones, and other things like that which aren’t necessarily fun on their own but the push they give your technical and physical skills are really helpful and it is fun to advance.
Developing a flute embouchure takes longer than picking up a whistle, but it’s worth it. Learn to expect a bigger learning curve and be patient. it takes time for your muscles to develop.
Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.
Interesting, thanks. I’ll have a look for some etudes. Anything you’d recommend?
Thanks, I’m finding that out. The upside is: I’m just beginning to be able to play tunes so it is easier to put in more practice time now.
I strongly disagree with Scott’s statement.
If your goal is to play Irish music on an “Irish Flute,” I wouldn’t worry about playing etudes. In my opinion etudes are just tunes. The amount of time spent reading etudes to play, doesn’t help you learn to play Irish music, in the Irish tradition. Along with working on long tones, work on learning and playing by ear. Like other have said, it takes time and commitment on your part. There is such a wealth of material available with Irish music, why bother with something that won’t help you to your goal.
The idea that Classical flutists are light years ahead of folk flutists is silly, It’s comparing apples and oranges.
I didn’t say they were lightyears ahead only that they are light years ahead in embouchure development because the classical approach provides isolated practice to develop the necessary physical ability to play. Otherwise, they are apples and oranges. Playing long tones and etudes is part of that. Playing tunes is great but it doesn’t provide the intensive concentration on technical skills that are provided by exercises. Unless you want to isolate particular sections of tunes that provide that practice and play them over and over again but then you might as well be playing an etude which I find more interesting anyways.
My favorites are the Robert Cavally books. They are really fun I think. Ignore the accidentals on your keyless flute and play what makes sense. I would also articulate it like irish music rather than tonguing.
I’m no expert at Irish music. I do however know a fair amount about flutes and making a nice noise with them after 24 years playing them.
I suppose that could have sounded combative. It wasn’t meant that way, only that trad musicians don’t really have the equivalent pedagogy for beginners that a classical musician has available to them.
+1. Just keep at it. It`s not only skill; development of muscle tone matters, too.
And dont let another player crap on your axe. The struggle to get good tone can be demoralising enough without letting someone who should know better undermine your confidence in your instrument, likely out of nothing beyond unfamiliarity. Doug Tipple is a respected maker of student flutes, and Im sure hundreds before you have developed into fine flute players with his instruments. You can, too, but it takes time.
You might need to concentrate more exclusively on your flute for a little while. Sometimes keeping up two instruments means you dont have enough time to progress well on either, and its much easier to step back into the whistle at later date. Youll likely discover when you do that all the flute time has immensely improved your breath control on whistle.
Listening and playing tunes over again, looping them is how many traditional players learn tunes by ear. Learning tunes for traditional player does the same things as playing etudes does for a classical player.
The benefit is you are building both your knowledge of tunes and your skills.
For clarity, I don’t think exercises should replace tune learning and the method you described. That is a sound method for gaining mastery of the music and should be pursued. I would emphasize the utility of exercises in acquiring mastery over your instrument and developing physically , two different things I think.
For example, a guy that I met at a session that played silver flute. He was a fantastic player of most of the tunes but someone pulled out a polka in F and he was flummoxed not because he couldn’t follow it, he didn’t have the technical facility on his instrument that can play chromatically for it’s entire range.
Thanks everyone for your input. I am starting to get a better tone and that is encouraging me to practice more. As for practice material, I think everyone has their individual preference as to how to best use their available time. I am grateful for and will take on board all of your comments. I would also like to add, I was in no way trying to be disrespectful to Mr Tipple’s instruments. He has been an absolute gentleman to deal with and his flute sounds great. I am sure that the habits acquired through playing it will stand me in good stead. Thanks a million.
I have the answer in my signature…
Haha! Very true! Instruments do tend to vary though in my experience. But yes, you’re right.