Hello dear chiffers and fipplers,
I want to buy a concertina for my husband but can’t spend more than +/- 500 Euro. The “real” concertinas cost about 5x more but I can’t afford that now. So could you recommend me a decent beginner’s instrument for that price? How about the Stagis and Hohners?
On 2002-12-02 02:57, claudine wrote:
Hello dear chiffers and fipplers,
I want to buy a concertina for my husband but can’t spend more than +/- 500 Euro. The “real” concertinas cost about 5x more but I can’t afford that now. So could you recommend me a decent beginner’s instrument for that price? How about the Stagis and Hohners?
- claudine -
Both of those are possibilities. But you might be able to do better. I think they both use accordeon reeds to lower price (and tone quality unfortunately).
Assuming you want an anglo—you might not of course—do you want a three row (30+ button) box or a two row (20 button) box? I’d recommend against the latter as it would be too limiting but you might get a good old reconditioned lower-end Lachanel for that price and it would sound quite good. You might get a lower-end Lachanel 3-row for about twice what you want to pay, perhaps less, and it would be quite a good instrument. You might get lucky. I’ve seen unplayable instruments advertised for ridiculous prices and very nice and playable instruments going for very fair prices. Definitely get someone who knows concertinas to help you choose if you venture into the secondhand market and definitely search out a good repairer in your region—you’ll need one for sure sooner or later and even the best instruments need a service about 3 times a year. It’s a good idea to do the latter first; a good repairer will be an enthusiast who might point you in the direction of that good instrument that also happens to be a bargain.
http://www.shanaquay.com
I just bought an Anglo 20 key concertina
for 160 euro (about £112).
The ‘ends’ are plastic, but it sounds quite
like my mates which cost…£1,500!
OK he plays better than I do, but for the price diff’ he can’t afford not to.
On 2002-12-02 03:38, Easily_Deluded_Fool wrote:
http://www.shanaquay.com
I just bought an Anglo 20 key concertina
for 160 euro (about £112).The ‘ends’ are plastic, but it sounds quite
like my mates which cost…£1,500!OK he plays better than I do, but for the price diff’ he can’t afford not to.
See how well yours plays in a few months EDF. Also, see if you still feel that way about it. I’d seriously like to know because I just forked out the equivalent of 1,500 pounds for a top-end anglo. No point saying that you won’t get your money back when you resell; at that price you won’t need to. You will find the 20 keys restrictive. If it’s a C/G, you won’t have C# so won’t be able to play in D.
“If it’s a C/G, you won’t have C# so won’t be able to play in D.”
The way I play, nobody would tell anyway
Seriously, I can afford to speculate £100,
but not £1,500.
If it breaks, or I don’t like/manage to play it, then it’s no great loss.
If I decide to sell it, then even if I only get half back, I can buy another whistle
How about the Stagis and Hohners?
- claudine -
I am fairly certain that the “Hohner” concertinas are just Stagis with a Hohner badge on them (same goes for several other brands). To the best of my knowledge, Hohner does not manufacture concertinas. A comparison between the Hohner D40 and the Stagi B1 reveals the same innards. Either they are very good at copying the Stagi design, or else they’re just sticking their name on them.
I am under the impression that Stagi is the only factory making decent and relatively inexpensive mass-produced concertinas these days. There used to be some coming out of Germany, but they seem to have discontinued production. Warning - steer clear of concertinas made in China or Russia, no matter the price - they are absolute junk. i wouldn’t give $50 for one. Well, not unless it came in a $50 case. 
The Stagi anglos can be very decent instruments if you pick them carefully, but quality control is awful at the factory end of things and there are some lemons out there. Buy from a knowledgable dealer who has already weeded them out. I send back about a fourth ( ! ) of the Stagis we get at HMT, and have them repaired or replaced. Sometimes it’s only cosmetic but there are often mechanical problems like sticking buttons. As another poster said, be sure you have a repair shop lined up, unless you are prepared to do your own repairs.
A friend of mine calls Stagis and other anglos with accordion reeds “Concertina-Shaped Objects”. There’s a reason for that. If you compare a good antique or handcrafted modern instrument to a Stagi/Bastari concertina, the difference is like night and day. But the Stagi has its place, for the budget-impaired.
I also recommend Bob Tedrow at Homewood Instruments (Homewood, Alabama) - he retrofits the Stagis to improve the action - this costs more but is worth it. He is also making his own line of concertinas and I’ve heard good things about them.
Wendina, Da Queena Concertina
[ This Message was edited by: klezmusic on 2002-12-05 04:12 ]
Claudine, check out http://www.concertina.net , which has an extensive buyer’s guide.
This has been discussed before and really there’s no such thing as a decent cheap concertina. Two rows are no alternative, no point wasting money on those and shame on those who sell them to you without telling you they are no good for the purpose you buy them for.
Anyway, concertina.net will be the best source of information. Marcusmusic in Wales has some decent mid-priced ranges. A low to mid-range vintage lachenal is the best option.
I forgot to mention that I want an Anglo 30 buttons in C/G. Thanks for your advice. Jens, I have read the buyer’s advice on concertina.net but hoped to get a few personal stories from Stagi owners. Wendina, a good repairer - or even any repairer at all - will be hard to find but unfortunately Alabama is not quite next door for me. I don’t want to buy in the US as shipping costs and import taxes are too expensive. So you think a Stagi could be acceptable if I find a good one. I’ll try to find a shop where I can play a few instruments before buying one.
On 2002-12-02 08:57, Peter Laban wrote:
This has been discussed before and really there’s no such thing as a decent cheap concertina. Two rows are no alternative, no point wasting money on those and shame on those who sell them to you without telling you they are no good for the purpose you buy them for.
Anyway, concertina.net will be the best source of information. Marcusmusic in Wales has some decent mid-priced ranges. A low to mid-range vintage lachenal is the best option.
Whilst I agree with all of this and said much the same, I wonder if a two row D/G would be useless for Irish music. It would be limited of course but you would get C natural (but not F natural) so you would be able to play quite a lot of tunes in D and G although not everything of course. (When I bought recently, a two row was quite out of the question though.)
Wim Wakker’s Concertina](http://www.concertinaconnection.com/%22%3EConcertina) Connection shop, which is located in Holland, also sells new mid-range concertinas (“Geuns-Wakker” model). They have been well received by the posters on concertina.net. They are, however, well over your proposed budget…
On 2002-12-02 09:30, Jens_Hoppe wrote:
Wim Wakker’s Concertina](http://www.concertinaconnection.com/%22%3EConcertina) > Connection shop, which is located in Holland, also sells new mid-range concertinas (“Geuns-Wakker” model). They have been well received by the posters on concertina.net. They are, however, well over your proposed budget…
\
Pretty true of all well-made new concertinas. The reeds are very important but good ones are bound to be costly.
I wonder what Wendina thinks about the suggestion Peter and I made to look out for a low-end reconditioned Lachenal? That’s what I was doing until I found exactly what I wanted and cut out the two year wait I’d been facing. An advantage of the Lachenal is that it won’t lose its value. I’m not sure if the same goes for Stagi and Hohner but I doubt it.
[ This Message was edited by: Wombat on 2002-12-02 09:41 ]
On 2002-12-02 09:08, Wombat wrote:
I wonder if a two row D/G would be useless for Irish music
Assuming you would want to take lessons and follow the usual style of playing it wouldn’t be much use, that said if you’d go for an ‘older’ style of playing, like the ‘German’ concertinas that were played 50 years ago, these could suit. My duet partner Kitty Hayes used to play the German concertina when she was young and re-learned on a D/G Stagi and she could handle a good few tunes on it. When she recorded her CD she bought a mid range Lachenal which was a huge improvement in all senses compared t othat awfull Stagi but she retained the fingering she knew, now effectively playing in C/F and finding it very hard to play tuens in the ‘usual’ keys. Basically the same happened to John Naughton who came from the German and changed to a better instrument [in his case a McGann duet] and ended up playign in the ‘flat’ keys.
So while you can play the music on a D/G you are very limited, modern players use buttons across the rows that open a huge range of possibilities to them, you’d be missing out on that when playing a D/G and even more so when playing a two row one. It’s a choice you have to make.
I just remembered Steve Chambers wh ohas a shop in Capel street in Dublin is manufacturing a concertina based on the Wheatstone Mayfair, it’s ugly and has accordeon reeds but it’s half decently made and it’s cheap[ though dearer than the Stagis, Gremlins and other useless ones], that could be an option.
I add to that, the Hohners and Stagis have the big disadvantage that when they go [and they will] they can’t be fixed, afriend who repairs cocnertinas came up with that one and it’s true, the ends of all of those I have seen are riveted on, you can’t take the screw driver to them and fix a sticky key or tighten a spring, they won’t open. Recently Kitty Hayes asked me to fix her Stagi [her grandson had a go at it and pushed all the buttons in]. No go. It wouldn’t open and was essentially lost while it would have been an easy fix if only it had been screwed and not riveted.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-12-02 10:01 ]
Klezmusic— you work at HMT??? That’s so cool! I love that place!!! (Live about 5 hrs from there but my brother lives near there so whenever we get down to visit him I have to come drool over instruments, LOL)
Well, here’s a funny story of how I got my concertina… it is crazy and pretty unheard of, both the way I got it and what we did with it after I got it. Anyways… it GIVEN to me by a guy who works with my dad. He found it in his attic; it had been sitting up there for about 25 yrs. So you can guess what happened… When I first got it and picked it up the parts all rattled around inside. So, Dad and I, probably against our better judgement since everyone says get a good repairman and don’t touch these yourself, tore the whole thing apart, retuned all the reeds, attached everything all back together and BINGO, instant concertina! It is just a cheapo one to begin with… definitely doesn’t have an “authentic” concertina sound. And our repair job certainly wasn’t perfect. But hey, it plays, and I have a concertina to play around with now. At least I am getting an idea how to play if nothing else. SO, like I said, that is pretty unheard of but I thought you all might enjoy hearing the story anyways 
Rachel
Rachel,
What’s unheard of isn’t finding an old unused concertina but actually successfully restoring it to playing condition yourself. I’ll clean or possibly refit a reed but little else—but then I payed big $$$$ for mine and the maker lives not too far away. Actually, if you find an old Lachanel, or something better, having it restored is perhaps the cheapest way of getting a really good instrument. Now, if you find an old Jeffries, just send it to me. Seriously, though, if you found that you might just have hit the jackpot.
Peter Laban scribed
“I add to that, the Hohners and Stagis have the big disadvantage that when they go [and they will] they can’t be fixed, afriend who repairs cocnertinas came up with that one and it’s true, the ends of all of those I have seen are riveted on, you can’t take the screw driver to them and fix a sticky key or tighten a spring, they won’t open. Recently Kitty Hayes asked me to fix her Stagi [her grandson had a go at it and pushed all the buttons in]. No go. It wouldn’t open and was essentially lost while it would have been an easy fix if only it had been screwed and not riveted.”
My Stagi is screwed.
No, no, not bust - just the ends screwed on, and not riveted. So it can be dismantled and serviced/repaired if necessary.
But…
‘All’ you have to do with a proud rivet head is to carefully remove it by filing/grinding
until flat, then if necessary drill out the
remaining head.
On 2002-12-02 09:44, Peter Laban wrote:
I add to that, the Hohners and Stagis have the big disadvantage that when they go [and they will] they can’t be fixed, a friend who repairs cocnertinas came up with that one and it’s true, the ends of all of those I have seen are riveted on, you can’t take the screw driver to them and fix a sticky key or tighten a spring, they won’t open. Recently Kitty Hayes asked me to fix her Stagi [her grandson had a go at it and pushed all the buttons in]. No go. It wouldn’t open and was essentially lost while it would have been an easy fix if only it had been screwed and not riveted.
What?
With all of the Stagis we sell, this is absolutely untrue. I have NEVER seen one with riveted-on ends. I repair Stagis all the time, and the ends are NOT riveted on, they have long Stagi end screws, which we also sell as parts for people who have broken or rusted screws on older instruments.
Edit - I just noticed where Peter lives. Crikey! Could it be that all the Stagis that are send all over Europe have riveted ends, and they send the good screwed ended ones to the USA?
Wendina, Da Queena Concertina
[ This Message was edited by: klezmusic on 2002-12-05 03:13 ]
On 2002-12-02 09:40, Wombat wrote:
I wonder what Wendina thinks about the suggestion Peter and I made to look out for a low-end reconditioned Lachenal?
It’s a valid suggestion. You are correct about their holding value over time, which will not be the case with a Stagi. Frankly, all of the low end Lachenals I have seen have not been up to snuff, but I’m sure there must be some great ones out there somewhere - I just haven’t encountered them myself. When buying antiques, exercise extreme caution. Make sure the concertina has been tuned within the last couple of years, and that it is at concert pitch - many older concertinas were tuned to Old Pitch, which is useless for playing with other musicians. Buy it only on approval - if it turns out to have leaky bellows or a warped reedpan, you’ll want to be able to return it.
However, Claudine’s budget would seem to preclude even a Lachenal, unless it needed so much repair work that it would end up double her budget anyway. If I were her, I would be looking to buy an inexpensive used Stagi 30 button for her husband to learn on, and start saving up for a good antique.
Used 30b Stagis in decent tune and good playing condition can be had in the States for around US$400, sometimes less. Stagi also makes concertinas with handmade reeds, which sound much better than the regular models and hold their tuning well, but the price is not much lower than a decent low-end antique, so why not save up and get the real thing?
Concertina prices over here are off the scale for really good antiques or European makers like Dipper. You can’t find a quality playable antique for under a grand anymore, and prices of $2000 and up are the norm. Twenty years ago I bought my first Wheatstone, a mid-range hex model with ebony ends, for only $800. Those prices are long gone. Today, that concertina would easily bring $1800.
Regarding playing 20 button, there are still hundreds of Irish tunes that can be played on a C/G or G/D, but it would be of limited use as a session instrument. I would be frustrated as all getout with a C/G, not having the C#. On a G/D, you can easily play the D scale cross-row style, but then D minor is out of the question without the F natural.
So, it’s a trade-off. You could get started on a really cheap used 20-button for about US$200, just to learn on for a year or so, at which time it will probably self-destruct, and you can then figure out if you have enough to upgrade to 30 buttons.
Claudine, when becoming a concertina owner, it is almost essential to learn to do one’s own repairs, unless you have access to a good repair shop and are prepared to spend some good money there. My 1918 Wheatstone, which gets a pretty good workout, has had to be retuned twice since I’ve had it (about 10 years), and I do all the other repairs myself. I sold an Aeola a couple of years ago that I had to have retuned and the reedpan repaired at a cost of $400. So, repairs are not cheap, and good shops are hard to find.
See my notes at http://www.klezmusic.com/sbx-info/sbx-rep.html
I still say that a Homewood Concertina would be a good investment - I’m sure he would ship overseas. Bob is sending me one for review later this month, with the aim of having HMT distribute them, and I will be putting the review up on my web page after I play it for a week or two.
We sold a retrofitted Stagi from Homewood a few years back - it was about twice as good as the factory Stagis, with all of the action problems that Stagis are prone to completely solved. So I can vouch for Bob’s handiwork, and because he is also a skilled player, his standards are very high. I’m really excited about previewing one of his instruments.
Another option might be a Herrington concertina. They’re handmade in the US, with accordion reeds, but they are so well made that they are very satisfactory instruments, much better than Stagis. However, they are still way over Claudine’s budget…
Wendina, Da Queena Concertina
On 2002-12-05 04:03, klezmusic wrote:
[Frankly, all of the low end Lachenals I have seen have not been up to snuff, but I’m sure there must be some great ones out there somewhere - I just haven’t encountered them myself
Maybe all the good ones are kept here and the crap is sent over there. Seriously though, Nearly all the kids in the area here have old Lachenals, my own son has one and they are fine. Custy’s gets them in all the time, Rosewood ended ones for around 1200, some of them better than others but on average a lot more playable than the alternative new ones. Kitty Hayes has one of those and it was an immense difference having her play that after her pumping at the Stagi. And she does a nice job on it, no denying that. [treat yourself, get the CD for Christmas]
On 2002-12-05 04:19, Peter Laban wrote:
Maybe all the good ones are kept here and the crap is sent over there.
Actually, Peter, that is probably right on the money. You guys would naturally get first crack at them.
The same thing likely happens with other commodities - I have heard it said that the really good Guinness remains in Ireland, the very best rum never leaves Puerto Rico, the best coffee beans stay in Brazil, and I suspect that the French keep the best of the vine for themselves.