Come on, Enders, your analysis can’t really be that shallow, can it? Even though I don’t agree with their tactics it’s still easy to see why the anarchists in the story are doing what they do. Mainstream media has a tendency to ignore and/or downplay peaceful protests. The anarchists feel that the peaceful protests fail to puncture the membrane separating the message of the protesters from the public. Many times the only reason the protest gets any mention at all is because of what the anarchists do. If the media wasn’t behaving so irresponsibly when it comes to covering peaceful protests with integrity – this sort of anarchy would be superfluous and irrelevant.
It’s not that easy. What hardships are they suffering through? How bad do they have it? Are they starving? Are they oppressed? This reminds me of a few years ago when similar protestors beat a police horse in Golden Gate Park with the stick sides of their protest signs.
It’s indefensible. but ever since those Seattle protests the BAMN crowd does what they want, at the expense of law enforcement types everywhere.
And oh yeah, it brings attention, but not to the issue, just to the protestors and their methods.
And your assertion would seem to imply that because the media “does wrong” then it’s okay? Quid pro quo?
I respect Chris Laughlin because even with many similar opinions, he actually went to foreign countries to try and do good rather than sit in a coffeehouse until the newest protest came up, then go out and whack an American cop to “express his outrage.”
Even in my days of most fervent Leftist activism, I felt unshakably out of step with the common contempt for nationalism and its symbols; the specter of spoiled, angry kids abusing the flag and blaming the United States for all the world’s ills, offended me just as intensely at age twenty as it does today -Michael Medved
I meant “US soldier’s presence,” Tom, in that sentence. I edited it. I think there is a misunderstanding here. I feel that London doesn’t need US soldiery for any reason in uniform to protect itself, but that it’s a distraction or worse, that’s all. Hope it’s clear.
I made no such assertion. I never implied it was “ok,” all I was saying was that the media’s tendency to ignore peaceful protests is the impetus that motivates the anarchists to use these tactics. If the media covered the protests responsibly it would remove one of the anarchist’s strongest justifications. The media should behave responsibly not for the sake of the anarchists, but rather for the sake of it being essential in a free democracy. If the media were to do this it would cancel out the relevance of the anarchists. (sorry to everyone else for repeat myself, but Ender’s didn’t seem to be getting it)
jGilder - playing devil’s advocate, if the media didn’t cover ANY protests, peaceful or violent, then it would take away the impetus for any protesting at all. (I really don’t advocate that, just pointing out what could be).
Actually, the local media did just that a few years ago. For several years in a row, the KKK would petition (and get approval) to put a cross on our local “focal point” Fountain Square, at Christmas time. Every year, there would be protests, the cross would get knocked down, it would go back up, there would be confrontations, and the police would have to pull extra duty to keep things peaceful.
A few years ago. all the local media (papers, TV, and radio) got together and decided that they would NOT make a mention about the cross. Nothing about the KKK asking for the permit. Nothing about when the cross went up. Nothing about any confrontations. They (the media) all made a blanket statement Thanksgiving weekend stating this is what they were going to do. And NOTHING else was said.
The cross has not gone back up since. With no publicity, the KKK lost the reason for doing it. End of problem.
Thanks for that insight, missy, it underlines the power of the media, but the circumstances in this case are quite different.
I always suspected they were, and I asked the anarchists myself why they use those tactics, and that’s what they told me. Then it was corroborated when I heard an interview with them on the radio. The anarchists at the SF anti-war protests had the same basic message we who were peacfully marching did, but the news that night was focusing on what they did. I’m not certain if it increased the attention the march would have received had they not done it. The peaceful marchers are always distressed at the lack of coverage we get, but then you get a small group of conservatives protesting something and it’s a grand media event. (I guess I should start looking now for examples since Enders will no doubt dispute this.)
Yeah, you should. I remember well when 5,000 protesters went to Sacto over the SmogCheck II debacle. Didn’t make the newspapers, but when 20 or 30 activists with a nebulous “give more money to the schools” issue marched to Sacto from San Pablo it was well-covered. I happen to know the local @#$-disturber who organized it as he is a gadfly on various issues (NOT that schools and funding is not an important overall issue). I think he went on a one-man hunger strike and also was well covered.
But really, we both know how people from various sides learn to use the media in various staged events. Get a podium, a mic, a scenic backdrop and keep those cameras pointed forward, lest it be exposed that there is little to no audience. I don’t think violent protests are working.
If you march and protest peacefully, Gilder, you have my respect, just as I respect the Quakers, who are always at San Quentin at midnight, when executions take place. They have shown, for centuries, that one can be at odds with society at large without vulgarity and violence, even when it was rained upon them. There is dignity in peaceful protest as well and the larger they get without violence, the more important they become.
I just can’t “go there” to honor the BAMN punks with enough credibility to rationalize their civil mischief. Perhaps the first time, it said something but especially on the geographical abstraction of African suffering, as opposed to some local tangible oppression, it just seems like a tantrum.
On a digression, I point to Boston in the 1760s. In point of fact, there were various violent protests during a ten-year period that expressed the various outrages of British rule. The local Founding Fathers, especially John Adams not only eschewed them (he used words like rabble, jack tars, i.e. idle sailors, ne-er-do-wells and other pejoratives). Adams ended up defending the British soldiers who lost their composure and fired upon the protestors, who were egging them on, in the Boston Massacre. There were effigies hung and flags burned at the Liberty Tree, the Governors mansion was pillaged, etc etc.
The actual administrative work of crafting a plan to revolt FOLLOWED this insurrection and it was done with the aim of being beyond that period of civil violence, including the influence on the eventual Bill of Rights. It’s kind of interesting how it played out, especially with the Whisky Rebellion shortly after Washington took power.
I acknowledge that we do have a history of violent protest but remain unconvinced that BAMN’ers are beyond juvenile delinquence.
Thanks Weeks. I’m definately going to print out this thread and hang it on my wall in my office. When I come home I might even send a copy to you and have you sign it for verification of your statement 
By the way, I thought you enjoy knowing that I’m now working with UNICEF as a Protection Officer in sunny northern Uganda…
Fire Karl Rove
Chris: I don’t mean to “use” you in an argument, but if a person is young and idealistic and wants to make real change, your path seems very honorable to me, compared to beating cops with skateboards. I am also confident that, as you broaden your life experience with the actual humanity involved, your views will ultimately reflect that. This includes the negative experiences of dealing with the same greed and corruption but expressed in different ways in those places.
For most Americans, issues involving Africa or Central America are a television abstraction. Having lived in India twice, I have an inkling of what’s it like to be in country vastly different than the US and somewhat under-developed by Western standards (this was a long time ago and much has changed there, of course). My experiences both exposed me to those differences but also the human interactions helped me to put it in perspective that I never would have gained otherwise.
I actually meant the thanks sincerely, but just thought I ought to add a little humour. So, thanks 
Do you think he’d be as good at playing the whistle as he is at playing the fool?
Playing whistle is as easy as falling off a bike… oh.
I wasn’t aruging with you Weeks, I agree with you on this all the way.
All the Best, Tom
Hey, I am not that used to being agreed with!!! 